Might and Magic MM6 or MM7?

[Fowyr]

I'd like to buy

Your first error.


Play MM6, then MM3 and then MM7. I don't kid. You will thank me later.

 

[A user named cat]

6 it is, then. Can I play it vanilla, or it's better with the greyface patch?

Make sure to enable mouselook in the ini after you install Grayface. I can't imagine how anyone played these games without it. Almost as bad and clunky as System Shock 1 without it. I'd recommend the following ini changes:

[Settings]
MouseLook=1
PlayMP3=1 (Make sure to move all your mp3 files from Sound folder to a newly created Music folder for this to work)
MusicLoopsCount=1
MouseLookChangeKey=4 (This allows you to click middle mouse button to enable/disable mouselook when needed)

Also be sure to grab the MM6 controls tool, so you can customize your hotkeys. The link on Grayface's site is dead, so grab it here

 

[duchU]

MM6 is better. MM7 is kinda boring at the end even though it's a shorter game.

GrayFace Homepage: https://sites.google.com/site/sergroj/mm

You may also want to try MM6 HD Graphics for MM6.

Besides I would recommend to use a program like X-Mouse Button Control so you could assign more mouse keys (like scroll for flying, 4th key for attack etc.) - not sure if you can do this with control tool.

Also if you are going to play MM7 or MM8 then they look much better with dgVoodoo with higher resolution setting (+ReShade with Lumasharpen filter). Difference is pretty big. But for some reason there is a problem with mouse cursor during Arcomage game.

 

[A user named cat]

Besides I would recommend to use a program like X-Mouse Button Control so you could assign more mouse keys (like scroll for flying, 4th key for attack etc.) - not sure if you can do this with control tool.

I believe mouse scroll flying is enabled by default in the ini after you install Grayface. It's quite slower than using hotkeys though as it requires a ton of wheel scrolling to ascend/descend in comparison to just holding down a key.

 

[LeStryfe79]

I played MM1 on NES and thought it was cool. Then, I played MM4 on a Compaq Presario and thought it was generic. Lastly, I saw the box for MM6 on the floor at my friend's house and he barely played video games.



I recommend playing the NES game and forgetting about the rest of the canon.

 

[duchU]

I believe mouse scroll flying is enabled by default in the ini after you install Grayface. It's quite slower than using hotkeys though as it requires a ton of wheel scrolling to ascend/descend in comparison to just holding down a key.

Never tried it with control tool. Just binded mouse scroll to PGUP/INS keys and it works ok. You don't have to scroll a lot. Just use scroll once to levitate and then with mouse look (+ scroll) you can climb pretty fast.

 

[A user named cat]

I believe mouse scroll flying is enabled by default in the ini after you install Grayface. It's quite slower than using hotkeys though as it requires a ton of wheel scrolling to ascend/descend in comparison to just holding down a key.

Never tried it with control tool. Just binded mouse scroll to PGUP/INS keys and it works ok. You don't have to scroll a lot. Just use scroll once to levitate and then with mouse look (+ scroll) you can climb pretty fast.

No I meant it's actually an ini option that comes from Grayface's patch, nothing to do with the control binding tool. The option should be under [Settings] as:

MouseWheelFly=1

 

[duchU]

Yeah, it's there. Not sure if it was added with patch 2.0 or Control Tool 1.1 or whatever but binding is reversed for me - so I use other program because of it.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Definitely MM7. Better story, more replayable with Good/evil choices, better class options, more skills, better level/gear scaling (endgame not impossible), better quests, better world, better towns, etc. It's just a far more balanced and polished game.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Orobis]

Make sure to enable mouselook in the ini after you install Grayface. I can't imagine how anyone played these games without it.

I never had a problem playing without mouselook though admittedly it got kind of annoying hitting the look up and down keys after a while.

I believe mouse scroll flying is enabled by default in the ini after you install Grayface. It's quite slower than using hotkeys though as it requires a ton of wheel scrolling to ascend/descend in comparison to just holding down a key.

This is an understatement. You have to scroll that wheel like a champ to elevate/de-elevate. Eventually i just binded up/down to Pageup/Pagedown.

 

[Turjan]

I think VII's the best M&M game period.

In comparison to VI it has better pacing, better gameplay and more variety.

But those dungeons man.... those sweet, long dungeons...

I'm usually not even a fan of big dungeons, but M&M VI's are simply amazing.

I've finished M&M VI several times, but with M&M7, I always end up just firing the game up and then play Acromage after some point.

 

[MilesBeyond]

I actually preferred the setting and locations of MM7 but that's literally just because I'm a massive HoMM 3 fan and it was a lot of fun to see the locations from that game (especially since the focus of RoE's bonus campaign becomes the hub for MM7). MM6 definitely has the more fleshed out world, though - it's just not a world that HoMM 2 went into enough detail on to really leave me with that child-like glee of finally being able to explore it.

So objectively, MM6. Subjectively, MM7.

 

[hoverdog]

Both MM6 and MM7 are great games, just as HoMM2 and 3 are both awesome. The sixth part has much better dungeons, more free-flowing world and those awkwardly charming PCs, but some of the locations were simply too big and the character system wasn't ideal. It's obvious how MM7 was rushed and done much quicker than its predecessor, but the improvements are easily visible too. Skill system is much better and tighter (even if it gives the short end of the stick to druids), the good/evil choice and different gamestyles are a fantastic addition and Arcomage is the best game-in-a-game ever. But there aren't really any memorable dungeons and the invisibility spell breaks a lot too. All in all, these two are some of the most fun games I've ever played. They went overboard with MM8 and we should never talk about the last part.

 

[kmonster]

I played MM1 on NES and thought it was cool. Then, I played MM4 on a Compaq Presario and thought it was generic. Lastly, I saw the box for MM6 on the floor at my friend's house and he barely played video games.



I recommend playing the NES game and forgetting about the rest of the canon.

You haven't played MM3 yet.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

M&M7 has the better character development (and some other minor improvements) and Arcomage, M&M6 wins on every other front.

Arcomage also pops up in M&M 8, and can even be found as a standalone game if you know where to look.

 

[Pope Amole II]

Eh, it's so fucking annoying to hear that MM7 has better character development/system/whatever. Especially in this place. Because it couldn't be further from truth.

Both VI and VII were made by the people who never understood how their own system works. Don't ask me how that happens. Still, VI had at least a semblance of reason. For example, different mastery level requirements for different skill categories. Because something that makes your life a bit more convenient (identify at 7, for example) really should not cost as much as something that just allows you to slaughter everyone (magic at 12). In VII, however, it's all stupid tens. And it's getting even worse by the fact that whereas in VI you end the game around level 100, in VII it's more like 60. So you're gaining considerably less skillpoints and the utility is much more expensive. And, obviously, you don't even need to level it up - there's just way too many free alternatives. But in VI, you could, if you weren't too stingy with your points. In VII, it's just a bad idea.

Next, monster resistances. These were fucked up on such a harsh level in VII. In VI, they were not tied to the schools - they were just elements and magic schools provided access to one or more of those elements. That put some restraint on the broken stuff of the game, you couldn't just shrapmetal your way to the victory. Occasionally, you've even had to use some shitty spells you've got because it was the only thing that worked. In VII - fuck that, let's just make light & dark OP because nothing can resist them, while everything resists everything else too well.

Next, out of grand master upgrades, only two really add some new options:
1. Mace with its paralyzation.
2. Bows with their extra damage.

Everything else doesn't mean shit. Adding your sword skill to your armor? Fuck yeah, enjoy your 0.5% bonus to evasion (an actual one). Versus physical only, of course. Leather skill gets added to resistances? Ok, maybe that's not 0.5%, maybe that's 2% of extra hit points - big whoop! Shield acts as a shield spell? Yeah, as if I don't have the means to cast it otherwise.

Restrictions also don't do that much. They make some classes (like rangers & druids) incredibly shitty, but I can't really say that they force you into some tough choices.

Next, we have more classes, but that doesn't mean anything. Monk is pretty much the same stuff as Knight, and Ranger & Thief also are crappier carbon copies (as they don't do as much damage as the first two). They play in the exactly the same fashion, just with the worse stats. Druid also got wrecked into oblivion, so yeah, muh class diversity.

Finally, just the plain hit point issue. You see, in VI, the difference between all the non-knight classes was rather minimalistic. Paladins & Archers got 5 hp and 4 sp per level (eventually) and casters got 4 hp and 5 sp per level. In VII, they made the spread to be much more severe. Paladins are 6/3 and wizards are 3/6, for example. And that's stupid. Flavorful, but just stupid gameplay-wise. In M&M, there are no rows, there's no tanking, your party is always at the frontline, everyone is constantly under attack. And since the first death/knockout/redzone generally means global retreat, you can say that your squad is only as survivable as your weakest member is (he goes down first). Therefore, it's pointless to have 200 hp paladins if your mage is 100 hp - all that extra gets wasted. In VI, designer understood that so the spread was minimal. In VII, designer hadn't got a fucking clue about anything. Was that even the same one, I wonder?

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Darth Roxor]

In VII, they made the spread to be much more severe. Paladins are 6/3 and wizards are 3/6, for example. And that's stupid. Flavorful, but just stupid gameplay-wise. In M&M, there are no rows, there's no tanking, your party is always at the frontline, everyone is constantly under attack. And since the first death/knockout/redzone generally means global retreat, you can say that your squad is only as survivable as your weakest member is (he goes down first).

This is by far the worst in combination with the idiotic 'favoured enemies' that some monsters have. I remember many ragings I had in the barrows when my cleric kept getting repeatedly raped in the ass by everything that moved.

 

[Pope Amole II]

Well, let's count:

Proper knight will have 57 grand armsmaster (30 basic + 10 Wallace + 17 from enchant; that's 114 dmg) and spear (20.5 from best halberd) + wallace (21.5) combo. 156 total.

Proper monk will have 57 grand unarmed (30 basic + 10 Hands of the Master + 17 from enchant; that's also 114 dmg), 24 master armsmaster (7 basic + 17 from enchant; 24 dmg) and power staff (12 dmg). 150 total.

Proper thief will have 24 master armsmaster (same as monk; 24 dmg) + 30 dagger skill (resulting in 30 damage) + 20 damage from two good long daggers (10 each). 74 total. There's also 30% chance for the triple damage, but that applies only to the basic damage of the daggers (yeah, that sucks). So that's 30% to deal 40 extra damage - 12 dmg on the average, 86 in total.

As for the races - considering how badly the stat progression scales, race difference means pretty much nothing. I mean:

Spoiler

Statistic Effect
500 30
400 25
350 20
300 19
275 18
250 17
225 16
200 15
175 14
150 13
125 12
100 11
75 10
50 9
40 8
35 7
30 6
25 5
21 4
19 3
17 2
15 1
13 0
11 -1
9 -2
7 -3
5 -4
3 -5
0 -6

Once you're at the fifty (which is too easy), it almost stops meaning anything. So those early +/- 20 points are, like, whatever.

 

[Alex]

The xeen games are still my favorite.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

I'd recommend M&M VII first since huge dungeons of M&M VI could be pretty overwhelming. I know that they started to tire my by the end of the game. On the other hand after starting I've played it all day every day until I finished it so I can't say it wasn't engaging.

Both VI and VII were made by the people who never understood how their own system works. Don't ask me how that happens.

It's not really hard to understand. Writing "fireball hits for d20 damage + int bonus" is takes 5 seconds. Testing if it's balanced and how it interacts with different systems in the game takes a bit longer. Especially if you don't have time to test game with all available builds against all available enemies. And since RPGs are big and complex games having broken builds is not rare.

Also you are wrong about HP spread being useless. With shared-life spell being the only reliable healing mid-endgame having a fat cow with a lot of HP to share that can also take less damage is very handy.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Stuff

Well excuse me princess, but I haven't delved into the numbers of M&M 6 and 7 like most of you seem to have done, I only played the games once, and that was back in 2004*. The feeling I got from the games was that there was more depth to the character advancement system in 7 - it seemed all so straightforward in 6, at least this was a little extra.

But still, thanks for the clarification. I've been thinking about another playthrough, and I think I'll just suffice with 6 this time round - I played M&M 7 twice (once Light, once Dark) and I think I'm sorted for life on that one.

*The only reason I remember the year was because while I was playing M&M 7 a tire yard caught fire near here, and everyone was forced to close their windows and stay indoors while a massive rubbery conflagration took place and smothered the entire city in black smoke.