Gothic 3 Boxart

[Lumpy]

Actually, you can side with the Orcs or the humans, or you can remain neutral.
"Live another life" means that it's not a game where the main quest is forced, and factions are just ways to progress through the MQ. The factions and the main quest are individual storylines. Plus you have lots of side quests. So you can be an assassin if you want, not just a guy who backstabs people during the Main Quest.

 

[Claw]

Are you trying to contradict me? Because you don't. I know what it means, and like I said it's not what the developers of Gothic are aiming for, so the game isn't designed to support it.
However, in the context of the scenario, not forcing the main quest and allowing the character makes more sense in Gothic3 than in Oblivion, as in Gothic3 you merely deal with an occupation, people could try to arrange themsevles with the situation, so living your life and not trying to save the world is an option.
In contrast, Oblivion casts the player as central character in the plot to save the world from demons spreading death and destruction. Ignoring the MQ is an option from a gameplay perspective, but it doesn't make sense, it just emphasizes the fact that you are dealing with a demonic invasion that isn't actually taking place.
Immer-shun!

 

[Kraszu]

Personally I like more story driven but non linear. You should be able to became assasin but it should be connect whit mq in some way (because of new connections that these gives and because it can close some doors for you). I see no reason why becoming assassin is better when it has no affect on mq.

So you can be an assassin if you want, not just a guy who backstabs people during the Main Quest.

So you can be assasin for one less reasson. Gothic games also have side quest, not so many like Oblivion for sure, but those concepts don't collide.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Personally I like more story driven but non linear.

I like water that's dry.

 

[Kraszu]

Opne ended vs non linear debate again? PS:T and FF7 are story driven but one is definitly less linear then the other.

 

[Lumpy]

Personally I like more story driven but non linear. You should be able to became assasin but it should be connect whit mq in some way (because of new connections that these gives and because it can close some doors for you). I see no reason why becoming assassin is better when it has no affect on mq.

So you can be an assassin if you want, not just a guy who backstabs people during the Main Quest.

So you can be assasin for one less reasson. Gothic games also have side quest, not so many like Oblivion for sure, but those concepts don't collide.

I'm not saying it shouldn't affect the main quest. It shouldn't affect just the main quest.
For example, in Gothic 1, you can be a thief, in the sense that you have sneak skills, but all that allows you to do is to backstab people and creatures during the unavoidable main quest. While TES games allow you to join the thieves guild, rise in ranks, and ignore the main quest.

 

[LlamaGod]

CD ROM? There's nothing like nursing an install for thirty minutes and ten CD swaps.

you usually ever do 1 swap and at most have to change the CD twice. CD-ROMs arnt that bad, you people overexaggerate.

 

[Kraszu]

You can steal and do many things that don't affect mq, there was side quest also. Sure there wasn't that many of those like in Oblivion but that is trade off, not not having them at all. SAing that Gothic didn't have side quest is a lie. in G3 you could play whitout becoming any guild member, but beeing in one change can change someting in mq from what I have read (or rather things you do for them).

While TES games allow you to join the thieves guild, rise in ranks, and ignore the main quest.

Why would it be worse to have your high rank actually open some possbilities in mq (while you could not became assasin and finish mq)? I can see that you like to have many guild and so on, but the fact that they are not connected whit mq in any way gives you nothing. I prefer to have less and to be connected (not neccesery).

Im not saying it shouldn't affect the main quest. It shouldn't affect just the main quest.

It did you had some ranks possiblity to go to new places (not only mq related) your prestigue changed (peapole reaction) I can see only diference in attitude. I wanted to became hi in rank to get new armor to see the castle, to learn magic, not only because I wanted to finish mq. I was also more respected after that happen it open some new possibilites some where mq related some not.

 

[denizsi]

You can steal and do many things that don't affect mq, there was side quest also. Sure there wasn't that many of those like in Oblivion but that is trade off, not not having them at all.

The problem as I see it is that none of those games support roguish activities as a profession, constant ways to make a living. You really can't make a living by stealing shit and robbing people or shops, because sooner or later, you'll run out of all resources, the NPCs and the shops; and at that point, being the masterthief or assassin doesn't mean a shit.

Daggerfall, with its widely despised randomization, supported roguish characters almost better than any other game ever has. Since you never run out of NPCs to kill or pickpocket, as well as shops, playing a roguish character did really fit in the game world, and you could make a living that way. Really, a game way ahead of its time. Don't shun randomized content totally. You just need to have a finer control over it.

I believe that sooner or later, gameworld of games like Oblivion will grow so big, developers will have to go back to randomization and find ways of doing it better and more controlled. Afterall, you just can't keep hand-crafting ever-growing gameworlds forever, which will also extend development cycle.

Why would it be worse to have your high rank actually open some possbilities in mq (while you could not became assasin and finish mq)? I can see that you like to have many guild and so on, but the fact that they are not connected whit mq in any way gives you nothing. I prefer to have less and to be connected (not neccesery).

I think the main concern is about guilds becoming side tools of the main quest; not guilds becoming side tools of the game play. Having guilds open new opportunities related to main quest is great I think, as long as they are not forced down on you and you can choose to ignore them and stick to your guildly non-mq activities.

 

[Kraszu]

denizsi I agree espeshlly in G1 the game simply wasn't very big, in g2 you could make alot of money by stealing. In g1 it was also alot. I don't even consider that there was assasin in gothic because you had only normal attack.

I think the main concern is about guilds becoming side tools of the main quest; not guilds becoming side tools of the game play. Having guilds open new opportunities related to main quest is great I think, as long as they are not forced down on you and you can choose to ignore them and stick to your guildly non-mq activities.

Gothic3 seems to go that way, sure there will be not that much side quest like in Oblivion but it is good traid off imo. There were some guild non related to mq quest actually propobly more the 50% in G2 throught they leght may have been lover hard to say. As for the forced guild since there was 4 to choose from in g2 whit addon (and some small optional, one forced bandidts but it was justsmall part of quest) it didn't brother me more I would like to see diferent endings and more changes beetwin them (mq). Also I would like to kick Sylvio ass or join whit him and so on.

 

[denizsi]

in g2 you could make alot of money by stealing. In g1 it was also alot.

"a lot" isn't enough to make it into a profession, a constant source of income, especially not worthy of focusing on roguish skills. But then again, Gothic games weren't really that kind of games.

 

[Kraszu]

Why would you want constant income in the crpg in the first place? I would like more things added to gothic but not for the cost of making it Daggerfall like game.

 

[St. Toxic]

I believe that sooner or later, gameworld of games like Oblivion will grow so big

Yes, retardadly big and plagued with fast travel. You'll be given earth itself and outter space, not to mention the teleporting device from Worms. Oh, I'm sorry, please go on.

, developers will have to go back to randomization

Go back?

, go back to randomization and find ways of doing it better and more controlled. Afterall, you just can't keep hand-crafting ever-growing gameworlds forever, which will also extend development cycle.

Not if the gameworlds look like the one in Oblivion, I can tell you that. Did you see the place? There was shit popping out for every other step I took; castles, ruins, caves -- I mean, fine. Ok, here's my thing right. Exploration -- huge empty spaces of nothing, with rare spots of interest; isn't that what explorers are after? I don't see the point in walking around between 55 places of interest and just, y'know, picking one. I don't see that as exploration.

Oh, and numero dos; graphics. Stop with the specular crap and "oh I'll add this individual detail here that no one will ever see just so I can take that extra paycheck home with me" bullshit, and you'll be fine for handcrafting more enormous worlds in no time.

In conclusion: Randomly generated worlds look like hell, and it's all your fault.

 

[Lumpy]

Kraszu, the problem is in Gothic, you can't be a thief and just be a thief. You have to do the main quest, being a thief is just a tool of the main quest. While in a TES game, you can be a thief, join the thieves guild, and have a full game experience without having to touch the main quest, or any non-thief quests.
In Gothic 1, it was worse. You could join the mages, but they wouldn't even give quests to you. Joining the mages rather than the guards simply meant you used another form of combat during the main quest. While joining the Mages Guild rather than the Imperial Legion in Morrowind gives a preety different experience.
The problem with Morrowind was that they made way too many factions, and all of them were too short. So as a mage, you couldn't just join the Mages Guild. You had to join the Telvanni or another magey faction, or quit the game at level 6.

 

[Kraszu]

Kraszu, the problem is in Gothic, you can't be a thief and just be a thief.

Because there is no ranks for thief?

You have to do the main quest, being a thief is just a tool of the main quest.

Lie being a thief have nothing to do whit mq either in Gothic or G2.

While in a TES game, you can be a thief, join the thieves guild, and have a full game experience without having to touch the main quest, or any non-thief quests.

Like in G2.

In Gothic 1, it was worse. You could join the mages, but they wouldn't even give quests to you. Joining the mages rather than the guards simply meant you used another form of combat during the main quest. While joining the Mages Guild rather than the Imperial Legion in Morrowind gives a preety different experience.

Yeah other then plaing the mage and using spells insted of 2h sward no much change (nothing?) in g2 it is better throught there are option quest in guilds. G1 wasn't finished but still I like it very much. The conceptwas diferent they want more interaction whit inteligent orcs, they wanted it to be no linear in other chapters not only one but had to rush it.

The problem with Morrowind was that they made way too many factions, and all of them were too short. So as a mage, you couldn't just join the Mages Guild. You had to join the Telvanni or another magey faction, or quit the game at level 6.

Well if you want to have 8 diferent games in one, you can't expect quality so it is trade off. You can't say throught that you can't be thief in g2 just because the thief quest don't take 20h to complite.

 

[Monolith]

The problem with Morrowind was that they made way too many factions, and all of them were too short.

The problem with Morrowind was and is that you need 100 mods to make the game balanced, challenging and fun (and I'm not counting mods that improve graphics and add furniture). Still 80% of the quests remain boring.

 

[denizsi]

Why would you want constant income in the crpg in the first place? I would like more things added to gothic but not for the cost of making it Daggerfall like game.

I wouldn't like Gothic games to be like Daggerfall either. Gothic games are what they are, and I like them the way they are. I was speaking generally about sandbox games like TES series which have all these skills with nothing to justify picking those skills really.

As for the reason to have constant income, or from a different point of view, constant and supported use of other game mechanics like roguish skills, is because the game (in theory) is a sandbox game so you are supposed to be able to do whatever you want in whatever way you like but the game just doesn't support it. You can kill shit forever, as a hobby, as an income or whatever, shit-to-kill keeps respawning. The same is not the case for thieving with at least MW & OB.

That was the reason I brought up randomization. Without going into whether ever-growing larger game worlds is good and necessary (which I think not), it is just what's going to be, judging from the current trend. Therefore, abstraction of a larger gameworld through randomization to support wider character types could work out a lot better than a hand-crafted world full of shit. That was the point I tried to make that some peabrain didn't grasp. It's ok though, I think I made it clear now.

Go back?

Is there a question in that?

 

[Gambler]

Personally, I didn't like Gothic 2. I wanted to play as a mage, I refused to trow all point into strength and short sword skill at the beginning. I learned some swordsmanship, but mostly lockpicking, forging, alchemy and several hunting skills. After dying alot and being beaten by lots of nice people, I realized that moderately high melee skill is mandatory and... discovered that because I joine fire mage monastery, training melee (or was it strength?) costs double points. After that I deinstalled the game.

So the finer points of Gothic 2 were:
1) Cliche storyline.
2) Horribly developed characters and utilitarian dialogues.
3) The joy of being stuck on a flat surface while running from someone.
4) Dying and reloading every few minutes. If you're lost, you're going to die. If you accidentally meet shadowbeast hidden by game's badly rendered threes, you die. Too many wolves? You die.
5) Lockpicks costed more than the content of an average chest.
6) But 6 wasn't really a problem, I found only two or three chests anyway. All "interesting" doors required you to have a key.
7) In the beginning, you don't have money for that armor. When you have money, you can't buy anything good.
8) Monastery looks like a nice place to be... Until they order you to do some giberrish initiation quest without giving you any good combat spells.
9) "Alternative" solutions aren't really that alternative. You need to kill people. You need to walk a lot. That's about it.

Naturally, I'm skeptical about G3.

 

[Kraszu]

Personally, I didn't like Gothic 2. I wanted to play as a mage, I refused to trow all point into strength and short sword skill at the beginning. I learned some swordsmanship, but mostly lockpicking, forging, alchemy and several hunting skills. After dying alot and being beaten by lots of nice people, I realized that moderately high melee skill is mandatory and... discovered that because I joine fire mage monastery, training melee (or was it strength?) costs double points. After that I deinstalled the game.

Noob, I played as a almost pure mage I never incrased my meele or range skill, you have too use scrolls wise and there is nothing unbeatable. I diead couple of times but not more then 5 or so for whole game.

So the finer points of Gothic 2 were:
1) Cliche storyline.

Partly agree, throught there is much more to story then killing dragons, you have too look for some of that throught and it could be better for sure.

2) Horribly developed characters and utilitarian dialogues.

utilitarian ?? Dialogues are fine imo.

3) The joy of being stuck on a flat surface while running from someone.

Happen to me when I tried to climb up on moutain, jump solve the problem throught not a big deal.

4) Dying and reloading every few minutes. If you're lost, you're going to die. If you accidentally meet shadowbeast hidden by game's badly rendered threes, you die. Too many wolves? You die.

Noob, just take bow and you will see enemy when you char nothice.

5) Lockpicks costed more than the content of an average chest.
6) But 6 wasn't really a problem, I found only two or three chests anyway. All "interesting" doors required you to have a key.

You found 3 chest? Almost every house have cheast. Lockpic cost is fine if you are begginer thief you can expect that chest in ouse that belong to pesant doesn't have +6sward or whatever choose your target at start.

7) In the beginning, you don't have money for that armor. When you have money, you can't buy anything good.

There could be more of those but there are some nice armors to buy to pay for upgr, armors are crafted by guilds so yo buy them from them.

8) Monastery looks like a nice place to be... Until they order you to do some giberrish initiation quest without giving you any good combat spells.

That quest fucking rocks, there is like one fight that you have to take in it and it is vs weak human enemy.

9) "Alternative" solutions aren't really that alternative. You need to kill people. You need to walk a lot. That's about it.

Just for exepmle geting into tawn quest:
-geting info that they let peapole that collect herds for merchant collect some and lie.
-bribe the guard at the norther gate. you can get that info also.
-stole farmer suit
-work and buy farmer suit.
-go to north and use mountain passage/swim to port. Yes you can heard about that possiblity also.

You can also go first somwhere else and when you get any "good" clothes they let you in.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Who cares about box art?

 

[Imbecile]

Who cares about box art?

http://web.telia.com/~u52502838/

 

[Gambler]

Noob, I played as a almost pure mage I never incrased my meele or range skill, you have too use scrolls wise and there is nothing unbeatable. I diead couple of times but not more then 5 or so for whole game.

Okay, so you played as a mage during your first game, you died 5 times, and used those 5 or 6 combat scrolls in the beginning of the game to explore, and do all those quests. Wow. That's totally believable.

You need more than 2 fire arrows to kill someone. You can’t block with magic, and you need to open your inventory to refill your mana. You need money to buy scrolls, and you need points to boost your mana reserves. Oh, did I mention that you need to be able to kill things to get money and skill points?

Noob, just take bow and you will see enemy when you char nothice.

Ah, the joy of role-playing. Also, bow locks on to the target, so you're always looking at it. Not the best way to explore when there are many beasts in the forest.

Almost every house have cheast.

And almost every chest has nothing of any value in it. Well, if you invest everything into lockpicking, then you might not need that many lockpicks, but you wont advace in a game through lockpicking alone. Money can't solve most of the problems in the game.

Just for exepmle geting into tawn quest

It's not a quest. Quest is something someone asks you to do, like clearing cavern from bugs. Did you do that with scrolls as well? Or is there a cool non-violent solution to that? Did you talk to bugs and convinced them to go away?

That quest fucking rocks, there is like one fight that you have to take in it and it is vs weak human enemy.

Cryptic riddle leads to exploration. Exploration requires killing things. (Unless you play the game for the 3d time and know everything in advance.)[/quote]

 

[Kraszu]

Okay, so you played as a mage during your first game, you died 5 times, and used those 5 or 6 combat scrolls in the beginning of the game to explore, and do all those quests. Wow. That's totally believable.

Ewer considering going to twan first and do quest that are non violent, and not traing to kill things that are obvoiuslly superior to yuo.

Oh, did I mention that you need to be able to kill things to get money and skill points?

No moron there are non violent quest at start and there is wnought of them for start.

Noob, just take bow and you will see enemy when you char nothice.

Ah, the joy of role-playing. Also, bow locks on to the target, so you're always looking at it. Not the best way to explore when there are many beasts in the forest.[/quote]

So moving your mouse to unlock it never came to your mind? If there are many beast that are stroneger then explore in diferent time, most of creatures in fores are easy to run from. If you go to place where there are pack of wolfes and big mnsters it is probpoly good idea to avoid that part of the map for some time.

Just for exepmle geting into tawn quest

It's not a quest. Quest is something someone asks you to do, [/quote]

Hardas tell you to get to the tawn you get expo when you get there.

like clearing cavern from bugs. Did you do that with scrolls as well? Or is there a cool non-violent solution to that? Did you talk to bugs and convinced them to go away?

Your Humor and logic are on the same level.

That quest fucking rocks, there is like one fight that you have to take in it and it is vs weak human enemy.

Cryptic riddle leads to exploration. Exploration requires killing things. (Unles you play the game for the 3d time and know everything in advance.)[/quote]

Or you are not a dumbfuck and you can use map that was given to you. All creatures that stand in direct way are easy to kill for 1lvl char. Be specific what kileld you.

 

[Gambler]

Ah, the joy of speaking with fans who hurry to use the last reserves of their offensive vocabulary simply because you don’t like the game. Almost as good as the joy of role-playing.

Your Humor and logic are on the same level.

Flattery wont help, this conversation is over.

 

[Kraszu]

You afraid to give specific examples on what killed you in that quest? I am rabid fan boy because I want to talk about actually specific futures of game not some generic stupid shit?

Ah, the joy of speaking with fans who hurry to use the last reserves of their offensive vocabulary simply because you don’t like the game.

No it is because you happen to say bullshit about the game, and you can't support it whit exemples.