I have decided to violate my Grimoire NDA. Ask me anything

[Ap_Jolly]

Do you also boycott H.P. Lovecraft? He was a reactionary racist whose stories also contain parts where he describes how ugly the people of those lesser races are you know...

Did I say anything about boycotting Cleve? And no, I haven't read any stories of his that had racial overtones (except maybe The Shadow Over Innsmouth, which had race-mixing leading to disastrous effects).

 

[Naked_Lunch]

But Lovecraft wrote entertaining stories, that were fun to read and contained an interesting mythos and air around them. Cleve and Grimoire just sucks.

 

[Jed]

And as bad as it was to be a racist in the 1920s, at least it was somewhat in context with that culture. Anybody who uses the word "Congoid" to describe Africans in the 21st century is obviously self-consciously a white supremecist.

I wonder if Craniometry is a skill in Grimoire...

 

[Ap_Jolly]

Hahaha, "congoid", are you serious? God that's hilarious! I'll stop calling congoids "niggers" right away.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

Interestingly, Lovecraft ended up marrying a jew.

 

[Ap_Jolly]

Actually, he ended up divorcing her.

 

[Spazmo]

I haven't read much Lovecraft, but regardless of the use of racist terms in his stories, I don't think that racism was the point of them. Grimoire's main plot, if bryce can be believed, revolved around purifying the human race. I'd say that's the key difference.

 

[Jed]

Lovecraft wasn't racist againt Jews, he was all about the "Asiatics."

 

[Ap_Jolly]

I think he had a thing against the congoids, too.

 

[Brillo]

Re: I have decided to violate my Grimoire NDA. Ask me anyth

Most CRPGs feature very reactionary ideology. Fantasy CRPGs are generally based on a romanticized variant of the middle ages. Sorry, but modern liberal ideology in such a context is just wrong.

It's not liberal ideology this is being posted from. Personally I fall into that misanthropic paranoid libertarian mold myself. Or at least closer to that than to liberalism. The bottom line though is that if the plot synopsis printed here is true, it's basically a retelling of the Christian Identity Movement's belief system. They're not necessarily nazi/neo nazi or Klan, something different, but very still definately a white supremacist movement.

This telling of the Grimoire storyline is basically straight from their belief system, the whole two seed belief, the pre adamanic races (and mixing), and of course RAHOWA (Racial Holy War) against them all by the Aryans. It's the same kind of shit believed by several domestic terrorists and groups in the US, the same shit they've acted on and to try to bring about, the same shit Timothy McVeigh had copies of and passages of when they arrested him. Don't go off thinking this is harmless or whatever.

 

[Goliath]

I haven't read much Lovecraft, but regardless of the use of racist terms in his stories, I don't think that racism was the point of them.

Lovecraft was a racist. Wikipedia has a whole section dedicated to his racism:

The opinions which Lovecraft expressed regarding race and religion, especially in his early writing, are no longer considered to be socially acceptable. Some modern readers have criticised the themes of racism in some of Lovecraft's stories. Particularly of note are the two pieces, The Horror at Red Hook and The Street, in which he describes the immigrants of his day as decadent and potentially dangerous. Some of his stories, such as The Shadow over Innsmouth and Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family, might warn against the dangers of miscegenation. Still others, such as Herbert West: Reanimator, contain overtly racist depictions of non-white races and the immigrant population.

Lovecraft's personal correspondence indicates that he did indeed hold racist beliefs. This, however, was regarded as an impolite but probable scientific fact within the anglo-rationalist intellectual framework of the time.

The text goes on suggesting that his world view changed later in his life.
Most people who were lucky enough to die before the 1960s/1970s were probably racists of course. So you shouldn't consume anything older than a few decades to proof your liberal consciousness.

 

[Shadowstrider]

Yeah, but Lovecraft didn't build a bomb shelter to hide in, have titanium-density bones, and he certainly wasn't so god damned smart he drove people into a foaming-at-the-mouth frenzy by typing words!

 

[Spazmo]

Lovecraft was a racist. Wikipedia has a whole section dedicated to his racism:

You're not paying attention. I'm sure he was a great big racist and hated everyone who wasn't him. Great. But what I'm saying is that I don't believe his stories were about racism and how Englishmen uber alles and so on. They were about horror and horrible things from BEYOND! The racism in them was incidental because Lovecraft and his contemporaries were racists. Blakemore's Grimoire, however, seems to have a race issue at its heart in which "racial purity" is presented as something very important.

 

[undead dolphin hacker]

Lovecraft's personal correspondence indicates that he did indeed hold racist beliefs. This, however, was regarded as an impolite but probable scientific fact within the anglo-rationalist intellectual framework of the time.

Racist by today's standards. Thus it's completely irrelevant.

Case in point: In the 1950s, 'Negro' was considered the proper term when referring to a black individual, while our modern word, 'black,' was considered derogatory. It's almost exactly the opposite today.

 

[Fez]

If they are dead, then they are not profiting from it.

 

[Jed]

I think he had a thing against the congoids, too.

Giant penguins, too.

 

[Snuffles]

Re: I have decided to violate my Grimoire NDA. Ask me anyth

I've always thought the standard plot for epic fantasy was the hero was the descendent (last one usually) of a certain bloodline (of kings/gods/etc) and that this bloodline made him more powerful than normal people, giving him special powers/making him a hero.

The plot presented so far for Grimoire could plausibly just be an attempt to keep to that epic fantasy style.

 

[pyrrho12]

Re: I have decided to violate my Grimoire NDA. Ask me anyth

Why do think that? Cleve doesn't sound like a nazi to me. He sounds like a misantrophic paranoid libertarian.
If making not-so-nice comments about other ethnic groups turns you into a nazi most people in the world are nazis...

I wouldn't say "misanthropic paranoid libertarian" myself. At best I'd say "asshole" and at worst I'd say "complete fucking lunatic". As for whether he's a nazi, or a white supremacist, or merely hates all people equally, I could really care less. He's racist*, he's annoying, he's not that bright, and as I've said before he's the poster boy for cognitive dissonace. Here's one relevant link:

here

If you'd like to read more of Cleve's brilliance a quick google search will turn up page after page of this stuff.

*Copx, since you've mentioned the word "liberal" in each of your posts, I thought I shoulc clarify my use of the word "racist" with respect to Cleve. I don't apply this word just because I find his beliefs objectional. I apply it because I find his beliefs intellectually sloppy and possibly dishonest. Instead of evaluating his beliefs based on the evidence, he evaluates evidence based on his beliefs. While it's true that everyone does this to some extent, Cleve has truned this into something of an art. If something that supports his ideas is challenged, he claims that his opponents are just being PC. If something that contradicts his beliefs is presented, he claims that the research was done by Marxists and is therefore invalid. He often provides "facts" to back up his arguments but when asked to cite them gets all defensive, causing me to believe that he's talking out of his ass most of the time.

 

[Grifman]

Windows was programmed by pedophiles, racists, gays, zionist baby killers, rapists, nigger-lovers, Diablo-fans, republicans, sushi eaters, bible bashers, bible burners and free mansons (given the number of programmers who worked on the Windows source base there is solid statistical evidence that this statement is actually true) - so you're already supporting evil!

You forgot Bill Gates - isn't he a class of evil unto himself?

 

[kris]

Grimore will run on Windows right? Windows was programmed by pedophiles, racists, gays, zionist baby killers, rapists, nigger-lovers, Diablo-fans, republicans, sushi eaters, bible bashers, bible burners and free mansons (given the number of programmers who worked on the Windows source base there is solid statistical evidence that this statement is actually true) - so you're already supporting evil!

So you made a assumption based on a assumption? Impressive evidence there.

I was dead sure Bryce where making this up at first, seems that is not that case which makes this quite hilarious. Surerly, if I wanted to make a sarcastic post about the plot in his game I would have written something like this... Bryce, are you playing with us or not?

 

[deus]

He probably is since some of the characters in the linked screenshot have human faces.

 

[bryce777]

Well, to be fair, if I did not know Cleve before playing the game then I am not sure I would pick up on this. I am not sure if it is intentional, subconscious, or what.

There are humans, but basically they are like lesser humans if that makes sense.

There are 'good' races that are basically half human and 'bad' races and some are in between. The gorilla men you could not play though.

I tend to laugh it all off, but I suppose that really it is reprehensible considering a lot of people have had to deal with real racism and could have to again.

Oh, and yes it definitely works in windows but not in windowed mode.

Overall I am surprised by how good it is, though, and if I had a patched version and had not had to restart umpteen times then I bet I would enjoy it a lot more. It definitely needs an outside editor, though, both for kind of offensive content and plain old implausibility and incontinuity in some cases.

 

[Sol Invictus]

To the moron named copx: People like HP Lovecraft and Rudyard Kipling were the product of a different society. Cleve Blakemore is a product of modern society gone awry of the present social and political norms. He is, in fact, an oddity, as are all racists like him these days.

It is one thing to regard Jews as being of a lesser race in those days, but not after the Holocaust.

 

[Goliath]

To the moron named copx: People like HP Lovecraft and Rudyard Kipling were the product of a different society. Cleve Blakemore is a product of modern society gone awry of the present social and political norms.

I don't consider being "awry of the present social and political norms" to be a bad think.
Here in Germany every school kid is told that people who have an independent consciousness are the good ones.. You know there was this little episode called the "Third Reich" and we aren't to proud of the people who followed "present social and political norms" at that time. In fact in school you've to learn about all those who didn't follow and they are presented as good examples for the children..

And you can't claim to be a thinking individual if your opinions are just based on contemporary norms anyway. In ancient greece there were atheists, people who rejected to oppression of women etc. Only dumb sheep are really bound to the madness of their time. Also racism is still rather common even in the West. I can only speak for my own country (Germany) but I can guarantee you that "racism" (meaning hostiliy between different ethnic groups) is still wide-spread around here.

He is, in fact, an oddity, as are all racists like him these days.
It is one thing to regard Jews as being of a lesser race in those days, but not after the Holocaust.

Do a poll on the streets of any Arab country. Ask them what they think of jews.
I wonder if the result of your poll will proof that racists are an oddity..

 

[Goliath]

Re: I have decided to violate my Grimoire NDA. Ask me anyth

I wouldn't say "misanthropic paranoid libertarian" myself. At best I'd say "asshole" and at worst I'd say "complete fucking lunatic". As for whether he's a nazi, or a white supremacist, or merely hates all people equally, I could really care less. He's racist*, he's annoying, he's not that bright, and as I've said before he's the poster boy for cognitive dissonace. Here's one relevant link:

here

Wow, he's crazier than I thought but I still don't care. If you want to avoid buying stuff produced by "assholes" you shouldn't buy anything at all 'cause there is a good chance that someone you would consider an "asshole" was involved in the production.
I dunno when I was younger I was really worried about what other people think and say in fact I would have supported the Anti-Cleve crusade back then for sure. But nowadays I just don't care anymore. The "teenage angst" is gone. Please be reasonable. Cleve isn't a threat to anyone. Do you think that if some people actually buy Grimore Cleve will use the few bucks to found a new nazi party, take over the US and use its massive WMD arsenal to whip all those irritating colored people off the globe?
Cleve will just die in his bunker in a few years and nobody will care. And if the codex wouldn't have started this whole "Nazi-Cleve"-drama I would have never known that he even existed!
BTW every time you buy gas you are probably funding islamic terrorism... And you worry about Cleve?!

*Copx, since you've mentioned the word "liberal" in each of your post, I thought I shoulc clarify my use of the word "racist" with respect to Cleve. I don't apply this word just because I find his beliefs objectional. I apply it because I find his beliefs intellectually sloppy and possibly dishonest. Instead of evaluating his beliefs based on the evidence, he evaluates evidence based on his beliefs. While it's true that everyone does this to some extent, Cleve has truned this into something of an art. If something that supports his ideas is challenged, he claims that his opponents are just being PC. If something that contradicts his beliefs is presented, he claims that the research was done by Marxists and is therefore invalid. He often provides "facts" to back up his arguments but when asked to cite them gets all defensive, causing me to believe that he's talking out of his ass most of the time.

Just to make that clear I'm not trying to defend Cleve. I just say that his personality isn't of interest.