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Decline In less than 5 years, there will be a widespread problem of AI botting in multiplayer.

Pika-Cthulhu

Arcane
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
Messages
7,686
I can see the use in training an AI to play like another player for competitions. If you feed it enough data from recorded demos you can compete with something that has similar decision making and playstyle to train up against them in a future match. Like a kovaaks training sim but with the legends of quake added in to really push your shit in. Of course then you get the ML to train on chat and add a vox and an anime avatar and just have a stable of ML moneymakers raking it in on twitch, why play games when you can print money.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
437
Time for a LAN party revival
This but unironically.

Although it won't be LANs specifically.

I predict people will start playing "private games" more and more with their friends and extended friends. "Quickplay" etc in most games will be completely compromised (IMO it already is, and not just by bots, there's plenty of shitheads), and so people will resort to playing with their friends.

The bad news is that this means there's EVEN MORE INCENTIVE for game companies to sell cosmetics, since you won't just be showing off to randoms, you'll be showing off to your friends.

The good news is that developers won't be able to ride the easy-money Multiplayer bandwagon anymore. They can't just rerelease the same game every year because entire groups will have to collectively justify the new purchase, and if it's only slightly different from the old version, then nobody is going to want to switch.

I expect people to want to play a lot more ancient-ass games over virtual LANs and a lot less pandering multiplayer games.

Hopefully this will end up with incline. I remember back when multiplayer games were niche and they were so much better as a result.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
437
Yeah you're right but I just never had a LAN party and I missed out :(
Tbh they are nothing special.

They WERE something special back in the day, but it was largely because getting all your friends together and eating pizza and playing games together was a rare novelty and was very fun. Now, playing with friends is something that can be done easily with little effort, and having your friends lug over their expensive and heavy PCs for some classic gaming really doesn't feel worth it anymore. The inconvenience feels much worse when everyone knows there's a better alternative.

People nowadays prefer to play games with their friends online and then have them all over for other events like pizza parties or whatever. Much easier to organise and actually setup.

It would be worthless doing a LAN now anyway since most games don't even have LAN support.

My last LAN was a "90's LAN" where we listened to Metallica and Linkin Park (cringe, I know, but it was specifically cringe music from our collective childhoods), we all played Quake 3 and HL:DM, and as many of us as possible brought CRTs. It was a good time because we were able to genuinely feel like we had gone back in time, and it was great. But I doubt that feeling would be replicable more than once or twice before it disappears.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
2,095
Location
DFW, Texas
Time for a LAN party revival
The bad news is that this means there's EVEN MORE INCENTIVE for game companies to sell cosmetics, since you won't just be showing off to randoms, you'll be showing off to your friends.
If you see a friend buying cosmetics, you and your other friends should bully him for it. You should bully him relentlessly for it because you are his friends. If you really care about your friend, he must be made to stop. It is for his own good.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
437
If you see a friend buying cosmetics, you and your other friends should bully him for it. You should bully him relentlessly for it because you are his friends. If you really care about your friend, he must be made to stop. It is for his own good.

I agree, but in general, I feel like the game industry will get away with it because most platonic relationships are, in my opinion, based on status.
 

Faarbaute

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
785
Time for a LAN party revival
This but unironically.

Although it won't be LANs specifically.

I predict people will start playing "private games" more and more with their friends and extended friends. "Quickplay" etc in most games will be completely compromised (IMO it already is, and not just by bots, there's plenty of shitheads), and so people will resort to playing with their friends.
This is my best case scenario as well, and what I would like to see happen. A fabulously optimistic one at that, I will admit.

But, it is to be viewed in contrast with what I think is the other, less desirable, alternative. The alternative, that gaming is about to get a hell of a lot more intrusive in your life. To combat these new exploits, of course. Think pre Steam vs post Steam, and the introduction of things like VAC, Battleye, PunkBuster and EasyAntiCheat, being forced to always be signed in, and so on — but on steroids. You could make it mandatory for players to have a digital ID, like the oft joked about Internet Driver's License, and introduce legislation that makes impersonating someone else online (even a fictional entity), or circumventing the use of your ID in anyway, into a crime. The sky's the limit, really. It just depends on how much people are willing to sacrifice, for the sake of the continued convenience of being able to eschew actual participation in an actual community, except for in the most superficial ways possible.

Or, if you're an American, think of being groped at the airport for the convenience of commercial air travel. (But I like flying, Faarbaute!)
 

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
Yeah you're right but I just never had a LAN party and I missed out :(
Go have one. Start a LAN party thread if you want ideas on how to have a good time. If you have any gaming friends in the area you could just invite people over and have them bring their PCs (often they're on gaming laptops these days, which are real easy to bring) and have fun.

Or you could try to organize a RPGCodex VLAN party (everyone connects to a virtual LAN and I guess you run Mumble, Teamspeak, or Ventrilo for voice chat). It's not quite the same as a real-life LAN party, but it'd probably be fun too.
 
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Joined
Jan 21, 2023
Messages
3,467
Servers are getting bigger and more expensive. Nobody's just going to loan you a little bit of server room for you to jack off with three of your friends to play online. Just buy a pack of Uno and play, or just get a roll20 session going if you like rpgs.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
2,095
Location
DFW, Texas
If you see a friend buying cosmetics, you and your other friends should bully him for it. You should bully him relentlessly for it because you are his friends. If you really care about your friend, he must be made to stop. It is for his own good.

I agree, but in general, I feel like the game industry will get away with it because most platonic relationships are, in my opinion, based on status.
Friendships free from ulterior motives do not exist. You shouldn't forgo the opportunity to form friendships with people just because you happened to meet them as a result of status. That's like choosing to live in isolation from other people.
 

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
Servers are getting bigger and more expensive. Nobody's just going to loan you a little bit of server room for you to jack off with three of your friends to play online. Just buy a pack of Uno and play, or just get a roll20 session going if you like rpgs.
The fuck are you on about? You can rent a virtual private server for a whole month for $6 or less easy. A dedicated server tends to cost $70 on average, but you don't need those. Hell, you don't really need a private server at all.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
437
Servers are getting bigger and more expensive. Nobody's just going to loan you a little bit of server room for you to jack off with three of your friends to play online. Just buy a pack of Uno and play, or just get a roll20 session going if you like rpgs.
Server rack space is the cheapest it's ever been at any point in history.

Your post is nothing but misinformation.

I can get a digitalocean droplet powerful enough to run a game server for $6 a month.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,850
This is based.

Kill multiplayer gaming.

It's cancer and is damaging the industry.

The sooner it's gone the better.
My thoughts also.

While I haven't played online mutiplayer in years, I have a great deal of respect for the concept. It's great to play with friends. Competition is fun. Human opponents are unpredictable. There can be new forms of gameplay in this environment. But ultimately, it has indeed been a cancer on the industry, shoving singleplayer to the wayside, normalizing lootboxes/battlepass etc, fostering an environment of addicted mindless zombies that play the same game over and over, 'community' is given more value than it's actually worth, and so on and on. Straight cancer.

Just one of many highlights of gaming in the 90s was that singleplayer was king. Multiplayer was always the secondary mode.
 
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cretin

Arcane
Douchebag!
Joined
Apr 20, 2019
Messages
1,404
Any sort of PVP game is already infested with hackers (see: recent escape from tarkov drama) that anticheat providers are hopelessly outgunned by so I really couldn't give a shit about AI bots and that seems the next logical step anyway.

Almost analogous to the death of globalism, people are just going to have to accept a downSCALE in multiplayer gaming. That said, in general, I think people overestimate the capabilities of what is spuriously being called "AI" at the moment. We totes could make human like bots we just don't because it would be too hard 4 u guyz!! is dumb shit developers have been saying since the 90s and they aren't called out on it frequently enough. We're talking about an industry where basic scripting in games like FEAR (2005) is still held up as an example to emulate.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,681
Location
Nottingham
Couch Co-Op, Arcades or LAN gaming in an office or college was the only way to ever game multiplayer. 10,000 times more fun.

Kill the fucking online multiplayer disease dead.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
437
While I haven't played online mutiplayer in years, I have a great deal of respect for the concept.

I don't. Having human opponents inherently limits what you can do to a significant degree. This is especially important when building challenges. The difficulty curve and encounter design of a good singleplayer game is impossible in a multiplayer framework. While multiplayer gaming can be fun, it inherently lacks depth specifically because it has to cater to feeble humans with limited playtimes and has to be inherently fair for everyone involved. This usually means that it's either a round-based game where consequences only last for 30 minutes or so and all the mechanics have to be simple and available quickly, or they are long-term RPG type games which can't have real consequences (like taking over of regions) because all players have to be on a level footing (which is why World of Warcraft and most other MMOs feel so incredibly stale to play, since your choices are meaningless).

As a result, even the best multiplayer games usually boil down to relatively straightforward and uninteresting gameplay. Even if it's implemented well and requires a lot of skill, more often than not it's just not really that complex or interesting, and it can never be.

Even the most complex and well-made MMOs are still constrained by these limitations. Which is why even the good ones feel so bland to play after a while.

I have had a lot of fun playing Multiplayer games in the past, and I don't want to make it sound like I'm shitting on them or saying they offer nothing of value or are completely worthless and unfun. It's definitely fun to have a good romp with friends, whether it's in an FPS or something like Age of Empires 2. But at the end of the day, multiplayer games will never hold my interest and attention (or make me think and strategize) like a singleplayer game can. Multiplayer games are just inherently incapable of offering that interesting of an experience.

It's funny, the accepted truism of "if you want a real challenge, try versing another human" isn't really accurate. It's true that other humans will always offer a more dynamic experience compared to a computer, and a human that's significantly better than you will be very hard to defeat. But there's no real challenge there. Nothing to overcome. Usually it's either you pwn someone because they are shit, or they pwn you because you are shit, and there's not much you can really do about it or learn from it.

Completing Dark Souls and fully exploring that world was a far more challenging and rewarding experience than I have had in any multiplayer game, and I have played CS:GO at global elite level.

Just one of many highlights of gaming in the 90s was that singleplayer was king. Multiplayer was always the secondary mode.

Ehh, not really. A lot of the big first person shooters were MP focused. Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament come to mind, and they absolutely took the world by storm.

the 1990s was the era of the arena shooter (Quake, Counter Strike, HLDM, Tribes etc)

The 2000s was the era of the asymmetrical and complex team shooter (Battlefield 2, Wolf:ET, etc) and the MMO (world of warcraft specifically)

The 2010 was when things really got cancerous and we got MOBAs and Hero shooters everywhere.

Every period in gaming for the last 30-40 years has had a large multiplayer focus.

I agree that MP is much more focused on now than it was in the 1990s, though.
 

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
My thoughts also.

While I haven't played online mutiplayer in years, I have a great deal of respect for the concept. It's great to play with friends. Competition is fun. Human opponents are unpredictable. There can be new forms of gameplay in this environment. But ultimately, it has indeed been a cancer on the industry, shoving singleplayer to the wayside, normalizing lootboxes/battlepass etc, fostering an environment of addicted mindless zombies that play the same game over and over, 'community' is given more value than it's actually worth, and so on and on. Straight cancer.

Just one of many highlights of gaming in the 90s was that singleplayer was king. Multiplayer was always the secondary mode.
Eh, not really. Setting aside shooters (ie. Unreal, QuakeWorld, Tribes, Team Fortress Classic, etc.), there is also RTS genre (Age of Empires series, Warcraft series, Command & Conquer series after C&C Gold, Starcraft, etc.), TBS games (Civilization series, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, and Heroes of Might and Magic 3), the Worms series, fighting games, racing games, MUDs, Pong, Bomberman games, etc. Honestly the 90s had quite a lot of games focused on competitive multiplayer, and a lot of them were pretty good games.
 

Lokiamis

Learned
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
193
My thoughts also.

While I haven't played online mutiplayer in years, I have a great deal of respect for the concept. It's great to play with friends. Competition is fun. Human opponents are unpredictable. There can be new forms of gameplay in this environment. But ultimately, it has indeed been a cancer on the industry, shoving singleplayer to the wayside, normalizing lootboxes/battlepass etc, fostering an environment of addicted mindless zombies that play the same game over and over, 'community' is given more value than it's actually worth, and so on and on. Straight cancer.

Just one of many highlights of gaming in the 90s was that singleplayer was king. Multiplayer was always the secondary mode.
Eh, not really. Setting aside shooters (ie. Unreal, QuakeWorld, Tribes, Team Fortress Classic, etc.), there is also RTS genre (Age of Empires series, Warcraft series, Command & Conquer series after C&C Gold, Starcraft, etc.), TBS games (Civilization series, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, and Heroes of Might and Magic 3), the Worms series, fighting games, racing games, MUDs, Pong, Bomberman games, etc. Honestly the 90s had quite a lot of games focused on competitive multiplayer, and a lot of them were pretty good games.
The majority of RTS players only play the campaigns/bot skirmishes.
 

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
Bot skirmishes are still competitive multiplayer, even if it's against AI. It's abiding the same rules and principles as a human multiplayer game would.
 

Skorpion

Educated
Joined
Jan 31, 2023
Messages
347
Bot skirmishes are still competitive multiplayer, even if it's against AI. It's abiding the same rules and principles as a human multiplayer game would.
Do you even english? "competitive multiplayer" does not mean against bots.
 

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