The Standard Edition of the C4 Engine is on sale at $280, instead of $350.
https://www.terathon.com/c4engine/order.php
https://www.terathon.com/c4engine/order.php
DakaSha said:Not really a tool but does anybody know of a good general programmers chat? Something one can always be connected to to ask/answer questions?
galsiah said:If history is any guide:
That's part of my motivation for having a go with Torque this time (previously I'd been loading-up-and-staring-at C4). Whatever Torque's sins it appears that it'll be much more straightforward to get some simple prototype running - largely because there's already a scripting language integrated. With C4, you either need to hardcode stuff, or, more sensibly,
galsiah said:to add your own scripting language on top of it (the graphical scripting in C4 is no substitute once things get at all complex).
galsiah said:I'll be loading the engine up occasionally, staring at the screen and thinking for a while, then concluding I need to do more design work before starting.
galsiah said:That means a load more work on setting up a suitable framework when using C4 - which is all the excuse I need to avoid ever getting to the concrete stage.
I'm saying I didn't get started - but that's mostly due to my own daftness rather than the engine. If I'd known precisely what I wanted to achieve, I'd probably have been fine.Davaris said:I don't want to get into a war here, but are you saying you don't know how to get started with C4?
Yes - and I'm sure it'd have me rolling if I got into it. I just don't think it'd roll me far in the direction I want to go.Have you bought the community book? I did and it got me rolling in no time.
I'd be fine with visual scripts if I wanted to use them to script isolated behaviours directly. That's not really what I want to do. I'd want to use a scripting language to set up general systems that I can play with without needing to recompile anything. I want to be able to use inheritance, create new object types, and generally screw around with stuff - essentially to have a C++ substitute for sections where versatility is more important than performance. I think Torquescript should be able to handle that kind of thing, but if you wanted to do it with C4 I think you'd be best advised to integrate Lua or similar.As for visual scripting I have seen one argument in the C4 forums, about visual vs text script.... visual scripting is one of the key features that sold me on C4.
My own assessment of the tools available within the scripting system, and through reading docs/forums. I'm sure it's a great system for writing scripts - that's just not what I'm after. The kind of things I'd want to do in the scripting language, are what you'd usually do in C++ in C4.Interesting comment, because you said above you can't get started? So are you basing this on your own personal experience, or that of someone else?
This is largely the reason I didn't start trying to get C4's scripting to do what I'd want it to - it's pretty easy to get up and running, but it's not suitable for constructing any complex game systems. I think Eric would envisage that you'd do all that in C++ - so the scripting system isn't designed to handle it. I'd rather be able to make significant systemic changes without needing to mess with the source code all the time - and more generally, to allow other people to mess with things without needing C++ access.The problem with engines that are easy to get up and running, is they aren't suitable for making big complex games like RPGs. The creator of C4 has the philosophy of 'no more complex than it needs to be and no less'. So yes, it takes effort to understand C4 and get started, but it will save you a lot of aggravation down the road, as your code base becomes complex.
C4 hasn't given me any huge problems I wouldn't have had with any other engine: my primary obstacle has always been that I've had no clear idea exactly what I want to achieve (which isn't anything particularly conventional, either in a technical, or game-mechanical sense).I don't want to come across as a C4 fan boy, but I've tried the other engines in this price range and IMO this is the best quality for the price and I am porting my old RPG engine to it.
Judging by the C4 forums, I'm fairly surprised that I've managed to install Torque3d without my PC bursting into flames . Of course I've read huge amounts of Torque horror-stories, and contrasting praise of C4's clean code/design... - which is why I didn't go near Torque until it got dirt cheap.At any rate, I want to tell people to search around the internet and see what other programmers who have used Torque think of it, before you spend money with them.
While you can't discount such opinions, it's worth noting that this group is unlikely to be a random sample of the programming population: those who were entirely happy with Torque probably wouldn't have moved on to C4, and be in a position to make the comparison. If you poll the people walking away from something in disgust, you'll generally get quite a few negative opinions.Word of mouth by programmers that have used these engines, will tell you everything you need to know.
galsiah said:I guess I'll still want to mess around with some systems pretty heavily. Of course that'd be possible in C++ - just a bit more time-consuming (at least where relatively small changes are concerned).