Interplay to publish FO3, using a different developer

[Volourn]

What was so horrible about Arcanum's character genreration. It was fantastic.

And, Astro, really? Youe xpected Troika to lie then? Afterall, they did say they would make the role-playing in TOEE very good. I guess youe xpected them not to follow through? Hmm... Not to mention, all the 'morons" here who kept saying that TOEE would have great roel-playing due to Troika pre release. Only now they say it was "never emant to be deep in the role-playing" department. LOLOLOLOL

 

[Astromarine]

I expected them to flesh out the story a lot better than they did, that was a disappointment for me. but no, I didn't expect a super Roleplay aspect. I don't remember Troikans promising much in the way of non-linearity, for example. I could be wrong, but I always thought about toee in those terms. Maybe one of your usual fighting buddies didn't, but that's not my problem

 

[Spazmo]

What was so horrible about Arcanum's character genreration. It was fantastic.

Arcanum had one of the worst rule systems since the AD&D 2nd Ed. Player's Option books. It was just a pain in the ass that you would only get one or two points every level. Besides that, the system just generally lacked finesse.

Liking Arcanum's combat and rule system doesn't make you an "unbiased Troika non-basher", Volourn. It makes you a moron.

I don't remember Troikans promising much in the way of non-linearity, for example.

Even if they didn't promise, they certainly did deliver. ToEE is one of the most open games I've seen in ages.

 

[Astromarine]

tactical nonlinearity, perhaps, but not story

 

[Volourn]

Spazmo needs help. He whines because he only got 1, or 2 points a level to use to gain new abilities and such. Waaahhh..... What a powergamer. One or two points was a fair way to do it. The system had a fine level of finesse; you just didn't have the level of brainpower to understand it.

 

[Azael]

Can't say that I was a big fan of the character creation (or character system) in Arcanum, the backgrounds for example were a nice idea, but poorly executed (kind of like the opening vignettes from a certain other game), most of them were too generic and only had some minor effects on stats, something which could have been handled in a smoother way (like in SPECIAL). The balance was also pretty terrible.[/i]

 

[Spazmo]

tactical nonlinearity, perhaps, but not story

Yes, yes it did have nonlinearity in story. There's any number of ways to reach the end of the game in ToEE, good or evil. Jinxed even managed to finish the whole game soloing with a bard without killing anything. ToEE is a very non-linear game indeed.

Spazmo needs help. He whines because he only got 1, or 2 points a level to use to gain new abilities and such. Waaahhh..... What a powergamer. One or two points was a fair way to do it. The system had a fine level of finesse; you just didn't have the level of brainpower to understand it.

Right. Azael is quite correct when he says the system is horribly unbalanced. Beyond that, the whole thing is kind of awkward. Powergaming has nothing to do with it since at a certain point in Arcanum, you get ridiculously powerful anyways, to the extent that I was able to beat the final boss of the game in my (character's) underpants. The STEAM system just isn't very good. I don't necessarily want more power to distribute at each level, but I'd rather have it more like Fallout where you get a certain number of skill points to distribute so you can improve some or all of your abilities at each level. STEAM just felt wrong.

Add to that the fact that Arcanum never really makes it clear exactly how it works and I just don't like it. When I play Fallout, I know how everything works since the system is quite clearly explained, at least in the Fo2 manual. STEAM just leaves you wondering just how much better a shot you are now that you have 3 instead of 2 in Firearms.

 

[Volourn]

That's true. It could have been more clear; but as balancegoes; I found it was no more unbalanced then any other game I've played - be it NWN, FO, BG, TOEE, or what have you.

 

[Spazmo]

No shit? Then how come magic users could waltz through Arcanum casting Harm and Desintegrate all over the place while gun characters had to struggle throughout the game, scouring garbage cans for the ingredients to make themselves bullets and maybe a decent weapon?

 

[Volourn]

I played a gun oriented character myself first time through and neve rhad a problem with a lack of power.

 

[Elwro]

Me neither, although I also was a technologist and made some good weapons for my followers - so they were a big help during fights.

 

[Anonymous]

I liked Arcaum's system in terms of flexibility, it had it's problems, of course, but it still allowed for fun/strange characters to roleplay.

Troikas two games were both failures. Arcanum had good roleplaying, but horrible character generation, graphics, combat and was severely buggy.

When you're playing a Roleplaying Game, shouldnt Roleplaying be what counts? I'm with Greyhawk in the 'Arcanum is close to Fallout' fan-pool, I loved the tons and tons of roleplaying, the great setting and great story. If you played melee in Arcanum with Fast Turn-Based, the combat wasnt too bad either, i'd say it's almost exactly like GeneForge. Bugs is bugs. I still dont get why bad graphics makes it a failure, and the only really 'bad' graphics were the character ones. I thought the landscapes and backgrounds looked great.

As for ToEE, we all know it had bad roleplaying and story, it was the opposite of Arcanum really. But it was the first D&D game to actually be a real D&D game, so I enjoy it on that alone, then you toss in the great combat that gives and the rest of the fun stuff and it's pretty enjoyable for me. Not BEST RPG EVAR IN THE WORLD, but it's pretty good, and certainly the best D&D CRPG. What was bad about the music, too?

Bloodlines is somewhat interesting and i'll probably play it to see what it's like, but i'm really interested in what Mistar Cain has planned for after that, as i'm expecting something pretty good.

Both games were failures and did not meet any of the expectations that gamers had for them. Troika is a failure when it comes to making rpgs.

Kinda odd, you mentioning mainstream gamers and whatnot, Arcanum got PCGamer's either RPG of the Year or Game of the Year in 2001 (dont remember exactly), and that's about as mainstream as it gets. ToEE got pretty high ranks by them, too. Also, have you ever played counter-strike? Right. I'd rather find my own judgements and opinions than get one from them.

 

[Avin]

adding my terribly wise comments:

arcanum character creation was good. arcanum character development, with two or less skills per level, was horrible. terrible combat. excelent setting and some good plots.

toee is a great game. yeah, kill me. there's no story at all but you can play the kick in the door style fairly well. it's a shame that you can't play the diplomatic guy like in fallout and avoid combats. toee combat is excelent. i finished the game two time after the first patch and co8's. too bad that, beside combats, the npcs are retards, there is the loot problem and i'm still trying to figure out how to murder the guys who created wotc's new game standarts.