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Marvel Snap! (aka Fast Gwent by Hearthstone devs)

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,655
Pulled my first series 4 or 5 card from a cache today and it's fucking M'Baku.

:hmmm:
I bought Galactus. Probably unsustainable to keep buying series 5 though. Token rate is very stingy and they are adding cards to it quickly.
 
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
4,126
Location
Chicago, IL, Kwa
Yeah, I’ve just been spending my tokens solely on P3 cards that I want. The p4 and p5 cards simply don't seem good enough to spend tokens on when there are still a few P3 cards I really want, even when it comes to top tier ones like Valkyrie and Bast.

I actually have been pretty lucky with my CL ladder pulls though, M'Baku aside. I have 41 P3 cards at CL1468, and, while I've pulled some stinkers (Adam Warlock, Drax) I've also gotten almost all of the top-tier cards. Sera is the most important one that I'm missing, and I'd also really like Doom, Deadpool, and Ghost Rider, so I'm holding on to my tokens until those cycle through.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,655
I guess I didn't mention that I have all the Pool 3 cards. So I'm looking for deck-defining cards to buy. I have Thanos pinned for whenever I get more tokens.
 

Jason Liang

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
8,374
Location
Crait
I spent last night analyzing Snap.fan's play, draw and deck win % meta stats and found some surprising results and insights:

Card Play Win% Draw Win% Deck Win% Pool

6

She Hulk #20 #14 #35 5
Ultron #7 #8 #13 3
Galactus #3 #32 #167 5
Apocalypse #36 #36 #115
Destroyer #10 #63 #96 3
Death #4 #67 #112 3
Spectrum #17 #50 #60
Leader #54 #87 #90 3
Doctor Doom #24 #88 #86 3
Heimdall #18 #24 #27
Magneto #87 #93 #93 3
Chavez #61 #42 #66
Armin Zola #8 #115 #133 3
Onslaught #9 #57 #44
Odin #5 #98 #82
Hela #6 #138 #156 3

5
Devil Dinosaur #13 #6 #23
Black Panther #25 #56 #87 3
Blue Marvel #14 #16 #33
Aero #63 #86 #75 3
Captain Marvel #42 #100 #103 3
Vision #35 #55 #50
Sera #72 #111 #124 3
Red Skull #69 #96 #108 3
White Tiger #44 #72 #71
Klaw #52 #65 #54
Gamora #71 #80 #71
Iron Man #16 #85 #79
Professor X #121 #141 #131
Spider-woman #50 #81 #62

4
Shuri #29 #16 #56 5
Ka-zar #19 #5 #5
White Queen #64 #21 #14
Wong #33 #47 #100 3
Moon Girl #27 #31 #22
Warpath #122 #91 #89
Rescue #127 #112 #102 3
Miles Morales #46 #46 #43
Dracula #107 #107 #109 3
Jessica Jones #65 #48 #46
Shang Chi #38 #88 #73
Enchantress #113 #108 #88
Namor #43 #22 #19
Strong Guy #103 #118 #123
Ghost Rider #88 #142 #158 3
Jubilee #150 #129 #144 3
Negative #127 #173 #187 3
Hellcow #94 #132 #125 3

3
Silver Surfer #1 #1 #2 3
Patriot #11 #2 #40 3
Brood #23 #18 #29 3
Thor #62 #29 #48 3
Vulture #30 #8 #20
Maximus #70 #71 #63 3
Polaris #120 #75 #73 3
Capt. America #89 #44 #37
Mr. Fantastic #73 #28 #18
Killmonger #57 #60 #58
Bishop #84 #73 #75
Punisher #34 #7 #3
Ironheart #60 #63 #61
Cerebro #41 #104 #176 3
Wolfsbane #48 #42 #35
Cosmo #129 #101 #81
Deathlok #124 #92 #79
Lockjaw #143 #126 #140 3
Doctor Strange #47 #39 #27
Elektro #141 #128 #137 3
Sword Master #92 #110 #112
Wave #116 #123 #127 3
Storm #151 #117 #95
Lady Sif #101 #131 #141
Moon Knight #132 #130 #125 3
Juggernaut #157 #135 #119 3
Hulkbuster #67 #61 #52
Green Goblin #158 #140 #135 3
Rogue #110 #158 #152 3
Sabertooth #134 #125 #107
Gambit #152 #144 #147 3
Venom #138 #155 #151 3
Mystique #31 #157 #153 3

2
Multiple Man #15 #4 #15
Mysterio #75 #67 #70 3
Sentinel #40 #11 #8
Scorpion #77 #34 #39
Lizard #97 #62 #56
Kraven #59 #23 #21
Carnage #80 #74 #82
Armor #106 #77 #75
Angela #75 #40 #47
Mr. Sinister #82 #48 #45
Bucky #100 #79 #82
Cloak #45 #33 #52
Colossus #123 #77 #64
Colleen Wing #79 #114 #117 3
Mojo #139 #122 #111 3
Scarlet Witch #147 #102 #90
Forge #111 #83 #68
Dagger #117 #105 #101
Daredevil #148 #136 #130 3
Wolverine #140 #120 #110
Goose #159 #149 #136 3

1
Sunspot #85 #37 #64
Nightcrawler #53 #19 #12
Quinjet #118 #84 #82 3
Nova #99 #69 #58
The Hood #109 #97 #98 3
Iceman #115 #76 #68
Agent 13 #104 #51 #34
Ant Man #74 #35 #29
Squirrel Girl #55 #30 #24
Iron Fist #78 #59 #48
Elektra #26 #15 #6
Blade #93 #108 #106

Critique
a) Play Win% and Draw Win% are the two signficant data points and range from ~ 62% for Silver Surfer and Patriot to ~50% (I did not include cards with < 50% wins). So bear in mind the difference between say, #40 and #45 is less than .3% wins.

b) The stats generally skew in favor of Pool 1 and Pool 2 cards since I assume wins are easier vs. bots and new players. So it's more insightful to compare Pool 3 cards relative to other Pool 3 cards.

c) The stats skew in favor of cards played in specific, niche but successful decks as opposed to generically used cards that are played in both good and bad decks. Hence Vulture is going to have a higher ranking than Storm or Cosmo, and Apocalypse and Ultron are going to skew higher than Doctor Doom and Odin.

d) Cards that are super commonly played across multiple archetypes are going to skew towards 50%, since in a lot of matches, both players will end up drawing and playing a card like Storm or Wave, guaranteeing 1 win and 1 loss.

Insights
a) Cost 3, 4 and 6 cards have higher win% impact than cost 1, 2 and 5 cards. Outside of Dino and Blue Marvel as outliers, the majority of 5 cost cards failed to achieve a high draw win%, even the ones considered "top tier" like Aero and Sera. Dino appears to be far better than any other 5 by a mile, while Blue Marvel is explained by being played only in specific, successful archetypes.

b) Cost 6 cards obviously generally have super high play win% since usually they are only played on boards where a player is confident in winning. Especially since a lot of 6s require correct set ups to be effective (see below).

c) Straight up stat sticks do better than both combo pieces and counterplay cards. Combo pieces tend to have high play win% and very low draw win% - examples include Hela and Mystique. Similarly, counterplay cards tend to not get played when drawn if there is no benefit. However, cheaper counterplay cards will often be played with little benefit if players don't have another option on curve - for example, playing Cosmo on 3 instead of after Wong. However, this is not entirely stat skewing. Even though cards like Cosmo, Storm and Enchantress are some of the most commonly played cards in Snap, we need to take more assessment how much playing them actually translate into game wins.

d) "Aura" cards that give power to other cards, like Silver Surfer, Patriot and Ka-zar all rank very highly, probably due to their consistency and multiclative, stacking value, rating very high on both play win% and draw win%. The stats back "aura stacking" as one of the best and most consistent archetypes in Snap.

e) Some major surprises were Ultron, Punisher and Namor. Ultron as a part of the "Disruption" archetype and supported by Aura cards is clearly extremely underrated. While weak to Killmonger, one can often play around a Turn 6 Killmonger with care. Punisher, I think, is an on-rate 3 for 6 potential power stat stick that benefits from several aura buffs (Spectrum, Silver Surfer, even Onslaught will give an extra +4 vs. Captain America who is limited to +3). Namor is perplexing. I guess people don't play Namor unless he's really good in the deck?

f) Leader is not as much of a bogeyman as his infamy would suggest. His effect doesn't translate into wins consistently as the best 6s. Negative is similar.
 
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Cyberarmy

Love fool
Patron
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
8,505
Location
Smyrna - Scalanouva
Divinity: Original Sin 2
Yo, whatsap!
Having fun with this on for a month, made to rank 40 but then reset hit. Suprisingly deep game and can be played really quick which is refreshing. Also no adds <3
Just got MR.Negative from collectors cache and at first I thought it was shit. Then Iron Man, Iron Heart and White Tiger cards came to my mind, so it'll be my next deck.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,655
Namor is bad because it's too easy to beat his power level and his placement can't be a surprise.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,655
Namor is bad because it's too easy to beat his power level and his placement can't be a surprise.
https://snap.fan/cards/Namor/

  • Won when Played: 57.41%(#47)
  • Won when Drawn: 55.96%(#23)
  • Won in Deck: 55.6%(#21)
The stats are saying Namor is secretly one of the best cards in Snap :/
Is that at a CL with or without pool 3 cards? He was pretty good when I first got him but I suspect he would only appear in a Klaw combo or something similar now.
 
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
4,126
Location
Chicago, IL, Kwa
Daily reminder that Jason Liang not only enjoys trolling, but is also bad at it.

I'm not even bothering to verify that he's accurately reporting the stats (which is dubious), but even assuming he is then the stats are very obviously skewed because the only people running Namor are people who have not reached P3. In that context he's a reasonable card to run. For anyone who is regularly running up against Arnim Zola, Death, Doom, Lockjaw, Patriot, Sera, Wong, etc. he is going to be a millstone around your deck.
 

Jason Liang

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
8,374
Location
Crait
A couple of quick sweet wins today:

ms22016.jpg


ms22017.jpg
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,655
I have been enjoying Galactus/Wolverine/Death/Gamora. Not much of a backup win condition, but a fun change of pace.

Probably going to swap out Wave for Electro since playing Galactus on turn 4 makes it harder to win.
 

Jason Liang

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
8,374
Location
Crait
ms22018.jpg


I'm currently top 100 by win% this season (70.49%). Not sure if its because I'm playing vs bots or 12 year olds.
 

Jason Liang

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
8,374
Location
Crait
Explains the Namor thing. :smug:

... does it, though?

https://snap.fan/matches/statistics?card_pool=&pool=pool-3-plus&agg=drawn_cards

57.18% win rate played and 55.8% win rate drawn since the start of the current season is still much better than I would expect. He's higher than common "staples" like Shang Chi and Wave.

The community stats are also consistent with my personal stats. Storm and Wave are lower than expected in the community data, and they are the two lowest play/ draw win% cards in my personal records as well.
 
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J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,655
It does. Unless you want to share your 70% win rate Namor deck.
 

Bigg Boss

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
7,528
I never played a card game like this. Do I need to buy cards to have fun or just to be the top badass?
 

Jason Liang

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
8,374
Location
Crait
I never played a card game like this. Do I need to buy cards to have fun or just to be the top badass?
If you like Marvel comics and movies, then you will have fun until you get sick of playing the cards that you have. Then you keep playing since you think getting new cards will make the game fun again, but the truth is that you've already watched streamers that played during the beta play 96% of the cool decks you could build once you get every card. Still you think that clocking in for 15 minutes a day for four months isn't a bad exchange rate for completing your collection. Also the game deploys a massive army of strawmen bots for you to bully to keep your ego inflated. As they say on Westworld, "If you can't tell, does it matter?"
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,655
I never played a card game like this. Do I need to buy cards to have fun or just to be the top badass?
I can't speak to other games. Progression AKA unlocking all the cards is more a function of days played in Marvel Snap than anything else. Fortunately, you cannot exchange money for cards that are better versions of what other people have. Real money is more about accelerating cosmetics collection.
 
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