Decline Modders are extremely arrogant and delusional

[Bester]

Mods by their very nature are a hobbyist endeavor.

By virtue of that they are subject to whole different standard than anything commercial or as you put it a "job". You can make broken mods

You have problems with categorial thinking.
What constitutes hobbyist endeavor is production of goods that YOU ARE interested in. You catch fish - you did it for yourself. You paint figures - you're the one who collects said figures.
However, if you catch fish and sell it on the local market, that is not a hobby, but a side commercial activity. If you paint figures for others, you're doing a job.

Mods are for others, and those others needs said mods, so it's a production of commodities.

The "standards" that you try to categorize goods by, is not a meaningful category. There are good games and shit games, same as there are good mods and shit mods. Bad mods wouldn't be commercially viable, it's not relevant to this discussion.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Bad mods wouldn't be commercially viable, it's not relevant to this discussion.

Oh but you're so, so wrong.

The thing about any creative project is that there are fundamentally two possible incentives: Wanting to make something you like, and wanting to make money. These are in conflict. You seem like exactly the sort of person who would ask himself the question "How can I make the most money with the least amount of time and effort?" The answer to that is by making shit. People reselling shitty assets, misleading marketing, planned obsolesence, pandering to a larger user base, abusing idiots and people with compulsive behaviours... basically exactly the kind of shit you see in really shitty modern games, often as DLC. It's in there for a reason, and that reason is not that someone was really passionate about the concept of lootboxes.

On the flip side, the vast majority of really good games were made by people who never expected to make a lot of money, but simply really wanted to create exactly the sort of game they'd love to play. Dwarf Fortress, Rogue, DotA, and dozens of other examples were made by people who demanded no money for their work, not to appeal to the market but to satisfy their own creative urges. And these games spawned entire genres and industry trends for years or decades afterwards. Mods would be no different in this regard. Hell, DotA essentially was a mod, and it's creation involved borrowing a lot of other people's work and never could have happened if it were being sold for money.

 

[Gregz]

Mods are brilliant. Some of them have created entire genres by themselves (counter-strike, desert combat).

Other mods have absolutely revitalized or salvaged nearly forgotten games (Wesp5's Bloodlines mod, Brother Laz' Median XL, the bears pit' JA2 1.13, ToEE Co8 or Temple+, Prophecy of Pender for Warband, etc.)

People who hate mods hate computer games. They are constoletard consoomers of the lowest order who want to guzzle goyslop-approved soyproduct for redditqueer points. They know absolutely nothing about the essential nature of this hobby. If ANY of you are under that umbrella, please kill yourselves.

cretin Whatever homo-acceptance simulators that are currently marked #1 on nexusmods and moddb have nothing to do with real modding. Your thread title sucks and I'm tired of seeing it bumped.

 

[cretin]

Sorry Gregz , I'll take this moment to issue an apology to all the crybaby modders on here butthurt that my title was hyperbolic and attention grabbing instead of ultra specific and boring. Mods, please change title to "This one faggot from reddit is really obnoxious, and fuck skyrim modders in general too"

 

[Bester]

Wanting to make something you like, and wanting to make money. These are in conflict.

What a take, Mark. Ooof.

Ask Tim Cain to do something for no money, I'll laugh at you so hard. He made Fallout to make money (pay off student debt) and to do something he liked. No contradiction. All good games were made this way. Money is not an impediment. All money constitutes is an incentive to work. You may or may not personally be invested into said work.

When you work independently, 99% of the time you work on what YOU like. This is why paid mods combine both money and personal creativity.

I have a hard time believing I need to explain these things.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Nobody works independently when money is involved. You've got responsibilities to employees, share holders, investors, publishers... and suddenly your art is woke, pandering, watered down gruel. But hey, at least you got to make some tiny part of it in a way you liked, under all the shit it's buried under to turn as high a profit as possible. Better to make hundreds shitty mods for the masses than flip burgers and make a masterpiece for a niche you appreciate. If you're a fucking sellout like Bester.

They don't call them starving artists for nothing.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

"This one faggot from reddit is really obnoxious, and fuck skyrim modders in general too"

Fuck skyrim is the only version that's any good tho, those modders are ok imo.

 

[Alienman]

"I believe people got used to everything being free"​

“Modding starts as a hobby and mods are passion projects for most people when they get started,” modder Emmi Junkkari, whom you may know by the handle Elianora, tells me.

“I doubt most people started making content for these games thinking they'll make mad bucks with Patreon. When Oblivion and Morrowind modding started (and earlier Fallouts), we didn't have PayPals or Patreons and Ko-Fi wasn't a thing. I believe people got used to everything being free, and people made content because they wanted to make it, and when new ways for content creators to get compensated for their work have popped up, the Bethesda modding hivemind didn't quite catch up.”

Source​

This is reflected in the Youtube sphere.

 

[JustLooking]

Trojan inside GTA v mod

DRM first and now they put viruses inside mods, those modders getting crazier each year.

I remember when there was this paid mod drama for Skyrim and when it failed, some angered modders started removing their free mods and creating ones called "End of modding" and such where they placed some kind of cemetery or grave that were suppose to resemble end of modding .

Nevertheless once Todd sniffed out the money in paid mods he ain't gonna stop.

 

[Ravielsk]

The "standards" that you try to categorize goods by, is not a meaningful category. There are good games and shit games, same as there are good mods and shit mods. Bad mods wouldn't be commercially viable, it's not relevant to this discussion.

Now you are just being deliberately retarded. Firstly most endorsed mods are often the half step away from being utterly trash. I have no idea which mod communities you follow but I do not know of any where this is not the case.

Secondly at no point did I even allude to quality being a factor. What I wrote is that what we currently describe as a "mod" does not meet the minimum requirement for being sold as a commercial product. Mods are often given the pass on things are straight up crimes in the commercial sphere. Borrowing code from Unreal engine ended up getting Too Human banned from getting sold. Limbo of the lost was pulled from sale because it used other commercial games for its backgrounds. Both of these did what is not only common but essential for a modding scene to exist.

The current modding scene can not and would not exist without asset sharing. Just without SkyUI most mods could simply never exist and the compatibility nightmare of every modder cooking up their own custom solution make it straight up impossible to have a mod list of more than 10 mods. The current modding community cannot and will not exist without extensive asset sharing but with paid mods no such sharing can occur. This is why even the best paid mods like Saints & Seducers ultimately boil down to a couple of imported models from Oblivion and a dungeon or two. Because without being able to tap into those community resources a single modder cannot realistically make anything more.

 

[Bester]

The current modding scene can not and would not exist without asset sharing. Just without SkyUI most mods could simply never exist and the compatibility nightmare of every modder cooking up their own custom solution make it straight up impossible to have a mod list of more than 10 mods

"Shared apartments can not and would not exist without a shared toilet, but people need to pee in a separate loo or they'll die, so shared apartments cannot be inhabited by more than 2 people, it would be a nightmare"

a "mod" does not meet the minimum requirement for being sold as a commercial product

"A 'chick' met in a club does not meet the minimum requirement to be wife material, so it should be illegal to marry them."

[gazillion brofists]

Logical chain of a mentally deranged individual: take a subjective opinion, be COMPLETELY unaware that it's an opinion, start proposing LAWS as if the opinion was an objective fact.

This thread to people with mental deficiencies is like a pile of shit to flies. I can't talk to crazy.

 

[None]

I'd make mods if it paid.

I'd pirate all mods

 

[None]

Anyways, I'd gladly buy mods that were of a high enough quality and could not be got elsewhere. But the fact is that there just isn't the framework to support modding-as-a-business. Bethesda can try something like Creation Club, but that is just a half measure that can be easily circumvented. To make it work, you'd probably have to kill off traditional modding. Limit tool access, file sharing and uploading, etc. I sure as hell would never get into the business if I knew pirating or copying my work was even easier than pirating the game it was for. And this assumes that people would still buy something like the next TES game if they knew they couldn't get free mods anymore, as that is part of the value proposition.