Oblivion - is it THAT bad?

[whitemithrandir]

Oblivion is bad because it's an RPG without any roleplaying, THERE.

Also it caters to xbox fans and graphics whores, aka stupid people.

In other, completely unrelated news, LlamaGod preoders 12 copies of Oblivion.

 

[Stargazey]

Oblivion is bad because it's an RPG without any roleplaying, THERE.

Also it caters to xbox fans and graphics whores, aka stupid people.

Ah yes, all xbox fans are stupid people, lest we forget ...

 

[whitemithrandir]

Oblivion is bad because it's an RPG without any roleplaying, THERE.

Also it caters to xbox fans and graphics whores, aka stupid people.

Ah yes, all xbox fans are stupid people, lest we forget ...

Well, I guess you got caught there, Llamagod. It's never right to use absolutes like "all". It's more prudent to say, "A statistical majority of Xbox fanboys are fucktards".

But wait, that would imply that there are xbox fanboys who are not dumbfucks, which is clearly wrong. So let's rephrase that to:

"The subset of Xbox fanboys who are not braindead morons is statistically null.", and that's something we can all agree with.

 

[Alexander]

No. This metaphysical reasoning might work for your philosophy class, it's not going to work here, when the product being discussed is a sequel after a long line of RPGs. RPG's are not a new product. Oblivion is not treading on some new ground. Oblivion is designed from the ground up as a Role playing game, one in a long line of role playing games. As such, roleplaying gamers have come to expect certain qualities from these games, and as can be seen from past incarnations of the genre, certain elements WORK; others do not.

For example:

Weapon variety WORKS. Cutting out Crossbows or spears DOES NOTHING to improve gameplay, and no amount of "well, maybe you haven't tried it... it could be good" will logically convince longtime RPG fans that cutting out half the weapon variety is a step in the right direction.

Immersion WORKS. Having a magical compass leading you around all over the place detracts from the immersion, as can be seem from RPGs like Fable.

There are precedented cases for these "Feature cuts", people. Oblivion is not treading on NEW GROUND. It's repaving an old road.

DF AI was fine; not perfect, but fine, considering when it was made.


I would have preferred an option to turn it off in game. Yes, I can simply post-it out, but I can't imagine having an option to turn it off in game would be too difficult to program. The Compass is the least of my complaints with the way Oblivion is turning out, however.

Without mounted combat, having mounts seem hollow and an imperfect feature, one that's excersized to only half its potential. I would have preferred no mounts AT ALL, but rather take that time to flesh out the CROSSBOW and the SPEAR.


No, I don't think it harms the game, but tastes kinda sour as a gimmicky marketing scheme. Don't care for it either way, but I don't think having Pat Stewart voice the game is a neccessary element of gameplay.

The Elder Scrolls have traditionally been marketed as the kinds of games where you can do "anything, anytime, anywhere". Making NPC's unkillable seem to detract from that freedom.

No. I'm disappointed you can't hit people with the staff. I could care less what it shoots.

Look, it's still too early to judge Oblivion as a finished product, and the final quality and appeal could very well swing either way, but from the piecemeal information the devs have divulged about the cutting of favored features (Levitation being the latest), it gets disheartening.

Hey look man, it's not like we have social lives. It's not like we have jobs. It's not like we got anything better to do. The Codex is THE place to hone and train your BITCHING skills, and you can't exactly get good training if you don't practice once in a while.

hehe, well I seem to detect just a slight flaw in your logic there, you mention rpg'ers expecting a certain quality, how does making the AI better detract from that quality? Sure things have been tried in the past, and some thing work and some thing's don't. I agree on that however I don't think the RAI idea has been tried before, and I do think saying it will fail, as you're basically doing, before you've seen it isn't fair.

And the weapon example, you can't compare the two. You're comparing something already established that's cut, to something not yet seen in action. I'm sorry but I simply don't think you can compare the two

Ai: sure DF Ai might have been great for that time, now however it's really outdated and such. and a game featuring such AI would be doomed. Morrowind AI might have been not bad when the game came out, now however again it would doom a game. So how does that say anything against RAI? isn't it just another improvement. sure they're trying something new, but what's the alternative? work with Morrowind's system and be accused of simply enhancing the same old things? or make something new, if I'd been them I might well have done the same

Agreed there, an on or off switch might have been a nice touch.

and horses, I kinda like the idea of travelling on horseback, even without mounted combat but that could be just me :shrug:

Nope, patrick isn't essential to the game, but again is that a reason to leave him out? Just a small detail that might help the game or might not add anything. who knows.

And I see your point about the npc's being unkillable, however on the other hand, did you see the help sections on the official forums a few times? the number of times someone was unable to comtinue a quest simply because he killed someone earlier. Sure some people would say live with it, as you killed him yourself, on the other hand, quite a few people would consider something like that extremely frustrating and even game ruining.
And consider being on the xbox, and not having the command console to correct your mistakes

And again, I always ask myself when I'm in a discussion, am I in it for a purpose, or for the sake of discussing, anything.


And don't worry Override, I haven't forgotten about your post, I'll get to that now. takes me a minute to read these monster posts

 

[Stargazey]

Oblivion is bad because it's an RPG without any roleplaying, THERE.

Also it caters to xbox fans and graphics whores, aka stupid people.

Ah yes, all xbox fans are stupid people, lest we forget ...

Well, I guess you got caught there, Llamagod. It's never right to use absolutes like "all". It's more prudent to say, "A statistical majority of Xbox fanboys are fucktards".

But wait, that would imply that there are xbox fanboys who are not dumbfucks, which is clearly wrong. So let's rephrase that to:

"The subset of Xbox fanboys who are not braindead morons is statistically null.", and that's something we can all agree with.

The number of PC users that are elitist snobs, what's the statistic on that, Rosen?

 

[whitemithrandir]

The number of PC users that are elitist snobs, what's the statistic on that, Rosen?

I am not a liberty to divulge that information.

 

[LlamaGod]

Oblivion is bad because it's an RPG without any roleplaying, THERE.

Also it caters to xbox fans and graphics whores, aka stupid people.

Ah yes, all xbox fans are stupid people, lest we forget ...

Well, I guess you got caught there, Llamagod. It's never right to use absolutes like "all". It's more prudent to say, "A statistical majority of Xbox fanboys are fucktards".

But wait, that would imply that there are xbox fanboys who are not dumbfucks, which is clearly wrong. So let's rephrase that to:

"The subset of Xbox fanboys who are not braindead morons is statistically null.", and that's something we can all agree with.

smart people don't buy xboxes

 

[Alexander]

You misunderstand my point. Not untried and untested as in never to be tried and tested but as in a completely unkown quantity. Of course new things should be included in a new game. But not at the expense of so many other features - especially when it is being feature-rich that has got your games noticed in the past.
The Devs say RAI is cool (which is what they say about every feature in Oblivion) but we have only their word for it - we haven't seen it, tried it, or tested it (hence "untried and untested"). It is, in other words, a completely unknown quantity as far as we are concerned. So, from an totally unkown quantity it is somehow morphed by fanboys into the greatest thing since sliceed bread. I have no idea how this revamped scheduling system is going to work and whether it is going to be brilliant or a complete load of crap - and neither do any of the people who are posting about how it rocks.


That there are bugs in Daggerfall is well known - although the last patch does clear a majority of them up. All I can say is that, since I patched it last, I've had no real problems with it - certainly no "crashing to desktop"-style problems like I have with Morrowind.


A couple of points off of this quote.
First, I'd hardly call 16 square miles, nine... sorry, eight "cities", a few scattered hamlets and 1500 NPCs "huge". Small certainly, bijou possibly - but huge?

The other point is that the compass is there whether you want it to be or not - right next to the parts of the UI that you need to keep an eye on if you're playing a warrior or mage. As to your comment - you could spend a month or more, just tracking down the person you need to find - that's just the usual fanboyish reaction to the wonderful RAI again. Think logically about it. 90% of the NPCs are only going to be moving around in a (very) small area - home, work, inn, home - not galivanting off across the map like a ferret in sugar-shock. How many guards or shopkeppers, guild-heads or commoners are going to go to the next town over for lunch? If the RAI has 1500 NPCs zipping across the map 24/7 then Bethesda have screwed it up big time.


And again with the balancing. It's a SINGLE PERSON RPG for god's sake. What does it matter if sword A or skill Z is slightly better than Sword B or skill Y? We all know that the majority of the people playing Oblivion are going to be going around wearing the leetest armour and carrying the bestest sword regardless of their role, class, or skill-set simply because that's how they've always played the game and - by jimmeny - they ain't about to change for some high falutin' RPG.


How about, instead, we call it what it really is? Smoke and mirrors that waste resources that should have been spent on adding something of more value to the game - like, perhaps, horses that can carry a burden other than the rider. Or carts, for fuck's sake.


Because it's more smoke and mirrors - crap designed to make the great unwashed masses go "ooooo, that's freaking cool, gotta get me some of that it's got PATRICK STEWART!!!" The cash spent on them could have been spent on other things - like paying someone to develop a Nine Divines faction instead of completely misleading everyone about it.


And you know what would have been even better? Letting people face the consequences of fucking up. Perhaps that would teach the omi polari that boast about killing everyone in Vivec a lesson? See, like you - I don't go around killing everyone in the game unless the character I'm role-playing would have done.


A staff that shoots fireballs (or whatever) and can be reloaded with an ammo-clip.... damn' I meant soul-stones - if that isn't catering to the FPS kill everything that moves and then kill it again just to be sure crowd I don't know what is.
As for staves that shoot out magic - there is a perfectly good word for that sort of thing. it's WAND. If they wanted to shoot fucking fdireballs a la Harry Potter why not add wands to the game and leave the melee staff alone?


And something I consider to be a complete joke. Either you're concentrating on using the weapon or you're concentrating on using magic. Never whistle while you're pissing - you end up out of tune and with a wet leg. Besides, it's Bethesda's bad design that made it impossible to cast while carry a weapon in the first place. Unless the weapon was enchanted, of course. Then it was a piece of cake to do both.


Again smoke and mirrors, albeit forced on them by Microsoft. In other words, resources that could have, and should have, been spent elsewhere instead of providing all the console kiddies with bragging rights and a way to chat to their mate in Timbuktoo. It's also a waste of overhead since that's something that's got to be running in the background all the time, diverting runtime from other tasks.

Correct. People won't know how it will be, the RAI as no one's seen it, but wouldn't you say that would mean it would be unfair to say beforehand that it would be bad? Aside from that, you make it sound as if all those others things are cut just to include RAI, I've never read a dev saying that. So I do not think it's true

As to the size, I'm sure you recall how long it would take you in Morrowind to travel from one side of the island to the other, and back again, in both game time and in real time. Could you imagine a province larger still then morrowind, having the same principle and yet somewhere in there there's a single person you're trying to find, who constantly moves around. I'd say it's chaos.

and for the record, I resent being called a fanboy
though in truth I probably am. Sure none of them are going to be moving around all the time, unless they're vagabonds of course and I could somehow imagine vagabonds to be included, who knows, one of them might even be an important one.

hm, as to the balancing point, you might have misunderstood me Override, I don't have any problems with people using the best armor or cheating all the time or whatnot, in fact you'll notice I have a habit of mentioning that on the TESF and I do believe in what I say, my point there was more about the number of people that do comment on such things in a negative way.

heh, well smoke screen, small feature. call it what you like. It's tiny IMO and again like I said, I could imagine it not being the main thing said against the game, or even a big thing. So why not just accept it and move on.

Again if Bethesda wishes to involve some mainstream people using famous actors, and I use the term mainstream very lightly, then I don't see the problem with that. I happen to like patrick Stewart a lot, so I do like him being included, more money, means more time and money to spend on a potential next chapter in TEs series

I guess what I just said in response to whitemithrandir also goes here:

And I see your point about the npc's being unkillable, however on the other hand, did you see the help sections on the official forums a few times? the number of times someone was unable to comtinue a quest simply because he killed someone earlier. Sure some people would say live with it, as you killed him yourself, on the other hand, quite a few people would consider something like that extremely frustrating and even game ruining.
And consider being on the xbox, and not having the command console to correct your mistakes

I guess just a difference of opinion there, though we do indeed play the game about the same way as you say yes

Well I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I'd hate to have wands. I really dislike wands, if only because of the shape and name
Staves however that do almost the same thing, appeal to me. Yes I would liked to have kept fighting staves, can't argue with you there, and won't. But I do think your analysis of the clips/ soulgems is flawed for the simple reason that you could have rings, amulets and whatnot in Morrowind that could also fire such spells and would also need soulgems to recharge. If you dislike this principle in oblivion then you must dislike the same thing in morrowind, either that or you might wish to reconsider that argument

Sure, it might have been bethesda's design that made it impossible to use the two together, and now they've corrected it. I don't see the problem there.
And as to the idea behind the two together, wouldn'y you say it would enhance combat? add a nice dimension to it?

yup, spending ten mins on figuring out how much achievement points something should receive, could have been spent a lot better, like on adding crossbows eh? Really now, how much do you think it would have taken them for that? not enough to have sacrificed anything else.

lastly, Override I do hope you don't think so negatively about the game, that when it comes out and you decide to buy it, you won't like it simply because you've been expecting not to like it

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

The Elder Scrolls have traditionally been marketed as the kinds of games where you can do "anything, anytime, anywhere". Making NPC's unkillable seem to detract from that freedom.

More importantly, it doesn't present consequence. It also risks breaking immersion.

 

[6pack1]

Well apparently, you, OverrideB1, haven't read any of the previews. They have tried and tested ALL of those things. Maybe you should actually look up this information before you start bitching about it. Seriously, you bitch too much about a game that you won't even buy. Why don't you bitch about a game that you WILL buy, and get nothing accomplished even more. You are a sorry excuse for humanity....and gamers in general...

 

[whitemithrandir]

Well apparently, you, OverrideB1, haven't read any of the previews. They have tried and tested ALL of those things. Maybe you should actually look up this information before you start bitching about it. Seriously, you bitch too much about a game that you won't even buy. Why don't you bitch about a game that you WILL buy, and get nothing accomplished even more. You are a sorry excuse for humanity....and gamers in general...

Go back to the official TES forums and talk nonsense some more.

 

[Drakron]

You are a idiot if you think previews actually play the game, reviewers do but previewers either have 5 minutes on playing some levels, are shown a video of gameplay or watch someone play it.

For years I watched the decline of the "gaming press", it became just like the regular press were what it matters if how to report it and not what to report it ... articles became more and more about graphic whoring and hype as in depth became a thing of the past but on a generation with such a short attention spawn its unlike I am going to read 5 pages reviews anymore.

One of the main issues gamers start to have is the whole "generalization" of gameplay, its only a matter of time when playing TES X,Call of Duty X and C&C X is the exact same experience.

 

[kingcomrade]

Like I said in the other thread, things like Gamespy or PC Gamer are more like a school newspaper in quality and content than a serious "publication"

 

[Dreagon]

You are a idiot if you think previews actually play the game, reviewers do but previewers either have 5 minutes on playing some levels, are shown a video of gameplay or watch someone play it.

For years I watched the decline of the "gaming press", it became just like the regular press were what it matters if how to report it and not what to report it ... articles became more and more about graphic whoring and hype as in depth became a thing of the past but on a generation with such a short attention spawn its unlike I am going to read 5 pages reviews anymore.

One of the main issues gamers start to have is the whole "generalization" of gameplay, its only a matter of time when playing TES X,Call of Duty X and C&C X is the exact same experience.

It's all about access. Game mags are scared to death of pissing off major publishers and having access cut off.

 

[Santera]

You are a idiot if you think previews actually play the game, reviewers do but previewers either have 5 minutes on playing some levels, are shown a video of gameplay or watch someone play it.

For years I watched the decline of the "gaming press", it became just like the regular press were what it matters if how to report it and not what to report it ... articles became more and more about graphic whoring and hype as in depth became a thing of the past but on a generation with such a short attention spawn its unlike I am going to read 5 pages reviews anymore.

One of the main issues gamers start to have is the whole "generalization" of gameplay, its only a matter of time when playing TES X,Call of Duty X and C&C X is the exact same experience.

We've published a preview of Oblivion (only the first part of it to be strict).
We've played the game about 4 hours and we almost forgot that our aim was to write an article - the game was so interesting!

 

[Drakron]

Yes you did.

And when Bethsoft realized your screenshoots were not to their quality standarts they made you take then down AND the second part of the article that featured then was delayed to a unknown date (after release?) ...

I am sorry but I see smoke and were is smoke there is fire ... the fact the article that was about actual gameplay was delayed to a unknown date indicates to me that Bethsoft does not want any article about how the game actually plays until its out.

 

[Nicolai]

Leak the second part of the preview. B)

 

[Data4]

Just wanted to chime in on that elitist, snob, pc users comment. Well... Duh. We've always been better than console drones. Always.

-D4

 

[Perishiko]

Do we really have to go though that again, Lumpy? I listed facts, you listed promises. See the difference?

That's why neither of you can argue really. The fact that alot of the game features are still hidden (regretfully a marketing tactic that bethesda likes to unleash on its fans...) really means that we don't know enough to state the promises as "facts".

I know i am very skeptical about the RAI and I'm not expecting anything at all to be amazing about it... (This turns out to be a good tactic with most things... that way I'm surprised and amazed anyway it turns out -- as long as the other features make the game worth playing).

The things is, they've stated they made alot of new "spells" with the "scripted" spell making... but, they've yet to release any info about any of the new ones...

If you've seen any of the video's you can notice that the compass is actually very small (i know i was expecting to see a medium sized circle in the top hand side of my screen...) If anybody doesn't like the compass, realize that it's small enough to ignore. (Just so everyone knows, i think the compass is just added for the RAI NPC's that will be roaming around, but they decided to "hold hands" of all the console users --also know as idiots-- and have it point out a few other things as well... Of course i don't know how many other things, because i obviously haven't played it... but that's how i feel)

I agree with alot of others that having horses that serve no purpose other then fast traveling is pretty pointless... But, i don't plan on using them, so they won't detract from my gameplay experience.

And as for the voices... i hate it. I would rather have alot of text that i can choose to read or not to read... But, i can do that anyways... since i normaly listen to my own music while playing any game anyways.

 

[kingcomrade]

Why DO companies hide stuff? They still haven't revealed the third faction in that rise of legends game, and I'm pretty sure Blizzard is doing something like that for their WoW expansion, and I'm not exactly waiting with bated breath for either, I only remembered them after visiting the strategy forum. It's not like anyone gives THAT much a shit about their Top Seekrit Hush-Hush Supar Suprise. If I read a preview and don't get any information about gameplay and setting out of it, I'm more likely to forget the game entirely.

 

[Greatatlantic]

I think its a matter of creating a constand influx of news for their game, thus generating more publicity. I'm sure Big Huge Games had a pretty good ideas at what the third fraction is going to be when they announced the game. But had they said what it was going to be when they announced the game, they'd loose the opportunity to get another write up on sites like Gamespy. Either that, or the third faction completely ruins the Magic vs. Technology style game RoL is being billed as.

I suppose there is some room for the developers not being quite sure where they want to go with some unannounced content, and then don't want to say something they'd later have to retract, but in most cases I think its all about keeping the game in the news.

 

[Human Shield]

Its going to be a nice looking fantasy FPS with mixed up order of missions to go on. Maybe they can make the combat fun, skills useful (doubtful), and have enough alternatives on quests to be as good as Deus Ex.

What does magic get you now that you can't teleport, fly, speak languages (Daggerfall)? I have a feeling that detection spells are probably reduced or removed (weren't that useful anyways).

Waterwalking and water breathing are nice. High jumping is going to be weird, if flying is out, what can you high jump to?

I guess you can kill, heal (boost stats), and unlock.

 

[Sabregirl]

I remember seeing something about how detection spells have been changed. . . . Twas on the recent Dev Diary.

. . . . My personal favorite is Detect Life. In Morrowind, this effect placed icons on the minimap indicating where creatures or characters could be found. It was a nice effect but not workable for Oblivion, so now when Detect Life is cast, a magical cloud, which is visible even when the creature is not, will envelop each nearby creature. You can watch these clouds to track potential targets, and usually you can even identify which creature you are looking at by the specific shape and movement of its cloud. This effect is sometimes paired with the new Night Eye – a useful combo in our dark, atmospheric dungeons. More importantly, the spell gives the player extra information without breaking immersion, so when you cast the spell you actually feel like a sneaky wizard spying on your enemies. Score!

I have a feeling jumping will be somehow restricted, otherwise it would present the same problem (whatever it actually is) that levitation caused.

edit- and don't forget about the uberly fantastic telekenisis . . .

-S

 

[Lumpy]

OK, Vault Dweller, I'll get some facts:
Combat is improved. You can manually block, and make multiple types of attacks. Enemies are smarter, according to PC Gamer, they use complex tactics, such as invisibility and surrounding the player in combat.
Magic was improved. It's back to the Daggerfall system, where skills affect mana cost and not casting chance. Also, you can cast spells while holding a weapon, and you have Script Effect. We also have sigil stones, and cast on use items look much more natural. Sadly, the only cast on use items left are staves, and all other uses of them were removed.
Stealth was improved. Light and Sound affect it, which is a huge improvement over Morrowind, and gives another use to Sound and Silence. Also, Radiant AI makes thieving and assassination quests much more interesting. You can also poison food, and apply poisons to weapons.
The persuasion system was improved, as you can see in the videos. Now, you have 4 options, which allow more roleplaying than Daggerfall's Etiquette/Streetwise. Also, you can choose how dangerous a persuasion attempt will be, being more dangerous giving you more points.
There. I'll be happy after you put those in your preview, or give me a reason why they aren't facts.

 

[Atrokkus]

We've played the game about 4 hours and we almost forgot that our aim was to write an article - the game was so interesting!

Why don't you post the second part of the preview then?
And why haven't you said a word about dialog system?
We're waiting for the second part when you actually get outta that damn prison and see the actual world.
It's like previewing Fallout 2 with a game build that has only Temple of Trials area.