Game News Silent Storm dubbed GameSpot's Best Game No One Played

[Jinxed]

The problem with Silent Storm is that it forgets that what their customers is REALLY after is not the flashy graphics or the crude rpg system, but the combat tactics. And no amount of destroyable geometry is gonna make up for the fact that SS is quite often a snipe-fest with little tactics at all.

The same thing happened in JA 2 in large open areas.

 

[Flarnet]

The same thing happened in JA 2 in large open areas.

Yup. And that's why I don't think JA2 is that much better than SS. It is noticably better of course with the dialog, Panzerkleins and story being what they are in SS, but when it comes down to it it's still waaaaay too much about laying your top two marksmen on their stomachs, sniping away.

 

[Sol Invictus]

You could play JA2 however you wanted. That was the beauty of it. You didn't have to have two patient snipers picking off targets across the map if you didn't want to do it that way. A couple of CQB guys would have worked just as well. As would a couple of grenadiers with ammunition to spare.

 

[triCritical]

Strategically, design-wise and NPC/story wise JA2 is a much more superior game then SS. However, SS holds its own in the tactical combat, which is at least at par with JA2 as well as in the character development (stat-wise) and 3D graphics/physics engine. Hence, why said SS needed something more to make it a much more fluid game from mission to mission.

 

[Jinxed]

You could play JA2 however you wanted. That was the beauty of it. You didn't have to have two patient snipers picking off targets across the map if you didn't want to do it that way. A couple of CQB guys would have worked just as well. As would a couple of grenadiers with ammunition to spare.

That is true, but not fully. You can play how the hell you want. And it's the same with SS. But the thing is it's much easier and that's what the player tends to do.

While most JA 2 players I came across were solo types, I'm more of a tactics person. I invested in 2 well rounded teams who took part in operations on different sides of the map simultaniously. And let me tell you, certain maps are almost impossible to do on hard without a decent amount of sniping. (hard difficulty)

 

[triCritical]

Agree with jinxed. I think the point is that in theory you can play SS how ever you want to, there are no restrictions. The problem is a design issue, and something that Nivel can work out if the continue making games in the genre. SirTech Canada just had a lot more experience making free form games.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I don't know. I always liked using a Auto Weapons (Expert) guy. He occasionally went Psycho even though it wasn't in the list. It always seemed like the best way to go about it, to me.

 

[Flarnet]

Sniping (or should one say long range battle using rifles) is hard to avoid when you get an encounter in the middle of nowhere with no houses or vegetation. CQB in what quarters?

The technology in Silent Storm is extremly impressive and almost equally under-used. CQBs with penetrable walls, collapsable roofs and civilians is the recepie for the perfect WW2 squad-based game. Unfortunately Nival didn't quite get there and messed up with Panzerkleins, dungeon crawls (non-destructable walls everwhere) and much more.

Let us compile a list of changes we want for Silent Storm 2. Although I bet it has been done to death.

-Drop the silly sci-fi stuff.

-Minimize underground missions (and if you have them - make the turns real small to prevent snipe-fests).

-Clean up the classes and the skill tree. It's WAY redundant, overlapping and sloppy. No classes, a special skill (to take the place of the classes) and a skill tree three times as big as the existing one (yet half as big as all classes put together).

-Take a long hard look at the ranged shooting/sniping. Make the AI avoid a snipers view a lot better. Aim to balance the game so that sniping is good for stationary defense and timed shock attacks (and poor for advancing and attacking).

-Feel free to make more stealth missions if you clean up the stealth game mechanics. Feel free to go fuck yourself if you have more stealth missions without cleaning up the game mechanics.

-Restructure the way equipment is made available to the player. This includes adding upgrades and rethinking the "familiarity" system for guns which is just cruel to most players in a game where there is such a glorious SHITLOAD of different new weapon types made available between each friggin mission.

-Add a "view line-of-sight from this character" mode so that we may check more easily if the target is behind cover.

 

[mr. lamat]

i really prefered silent storm over ja2. alot of the squad based tactics i use (envelopment and heavy weapon support) play out much better in ss than ja2. for the most part i do use two snipers in place of a scout or medic on my squads, but that just seems alot more tactically sound from a realism standpoint. in this case realism does equal fun, for me.

edit to fit with above post:

i loved the familiarity aspect of weapon use. my character for most campaigns has been a sniper and i've rarely used anything but the scoped springfield or k-98. they're not the heaviest hitting, but after several missions with them, they're certified headsplitters. maybe it doesn't translate well and requires a bit of imagination, but to me familiarization simply meant that the character customized their weapon. filed down the stock, changed the scope, lopped off the iron-sight... whatever you can think of.

same goes for the rest of the team. once you get to the sten mk iv, or the bren gun, there's little need to take any newer weapons offered to you. they do the job quite nicely. hell, my engineer LA has been using the same carbine from the first mission to the last and she's an absolute surgeon with it. same goes for zanaida's back up piece, the luger.

the game offers you alot of weapons, but they aren't really needed. some of the off-the-bat weapons are far deadlier in the right hands. as opposed to ja2, where you had to upgrade because everyone was suddenly wearing spectra vests and helmets covered in goo.

 

[Jinxed]

Exit, with which patch are you using it?

My polish version is 1.04 I think and when I load up the 800x600 I cannot click on the AIM page after I load it from bookmarks. I tried loading the 1.06 patch but it's the same thing.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Neither. I'm using JA2 Gold, which uses 1.07.

 

[Circuitbreaker]

-Clean up the classes and the skill tree. It's WAY redundant, overlapping and sloppy. No classes, a special skill (to take the place of the classes) and a skill tree three times as big as the existing one (yet half as big as all classes put together).

That's indeed an area that needs improvement. Some classes have useless skill trees, like the "melee" medic skills. Also some skills take ages to increase (engineering, medical), making all those items with high skill requirement useless.

Typically I "open" locked doors using HMG short bursts instead of using the engineer to pick the lock.

 

[Flarnet]

i loved the familiarity aspect of weapon use. my character for most campaigns has been a sniper and i've rarely used anything but the scoped springfield or k-98. they're not the heaviest hitting, but after several missions with them, they're certified headsplitters. maybe it doesn't translate well and requires a bit of imagination, but to me familiarization simply meant that the character customized their weapon. filed down the stock, changed the scope, lopped off the iron-sight... whatever you can think of.

Yeah I liked the idea of weapon familiarity too. In a game where guns aren't all that much different and/or are discovered at a very slow pace it would be a super-great game mechanic to introduce some hysteresis. It would give the player a reason to not constantly swap to the flavor of the day, and make sure that once they do change guns it's to something significantly better.
But in SS where you got a slew of guns, all much better, between each mission practically, it was as good as useless since the player simply have to switch weapons. The offerings are too sweet to pass up. Making familiarity irritating and pointless.

 

[mr. lamat]

i didn't find the "slew of weapons" to be all that much better. yes, the tommy gun does more damage per hit and can be equipped with a drum magazine, but the sten iv in the right hands does just as much if not more damage with better accuracy. the same goes with the fiddy-cal and the bren gun.

abala and dani jump up in medical skill quite quickly if you're using tools instead of bandages for healing purposes. the melee skill for medics makes sense as well, since they tend to use scapels which are just fancy knives.

 

[Jinxed]

I dealt with familiary by choosing a tree or wall and kept shooting for 15 minutes.

The lack of strafing pisses me off in JA2 now.

 

[Avé]

Strafing in games is a load of crap, strafing is wholly artificial and has no basis on reality.

 

[dipdipdip]

Liar.

My friends, Percy and Chauncey, and I, play strafe tag all the time.

 

[EvoG]

Strafing in games is a load of crap, strafing is wholly artificial and has no basis on reality.

Well first off, we're talking games, not reality and gameplay always trumps reality, especially when the leap isn't that great.

Strafeing in FPS's has been exaggerated but are conceptually not unrealisitic. Anyone can run in one direction while looking in another...and this includes firing a weapon regardless of how terrible their accuracy would be.

Strafing in the literal sense..sidestepping...of course exists in reality, and if attributed soley to combat tactics, methinks you need to take a look at some police/swat/military maneuver handbooks.

Now on to the point, I felt this to be a VERY strong feature in SS, as it made LOS clear and workable. You always maintain heading thus maintaining your view on a very specific point no matter the movment. This allows for +modifiers to first contact(or at least avoid -modifiers to ambush). You're able to convincingly and confidently establish a moving permimeter with your team to make sure you cover multiple areas of potential threat.

Both pity and utter amazment that SS only sold 20k copies *gulp*. Dear lord.


Cheers

 

[Elwro]

[Both pity and utter amazment that SS only sold 20k copies *gulp*

WHAT? Holy crap... Even Arcanum sold more, and I've heard it being referred to as a major flop...

 

[Sol Invictus]

Stealth is also incredibly poorly balanced. With a scout unit you can singlehandedly take out entire platoons of enemy soldiers because they won't even see you even if you're standing in front of them.

All in all Silent Storm is a game with an incredible amount of potential, if only some of the features were removed, or rebalanced. Here's my suggestions:

Stuff to remove:
Panzerkleins
Ultra long range sniper rifles
The RPG system
The horrible inventory system
Linear mission map

Add:
Remove the RPG system and replace it with a skill system like the one in JA2.
The ability to skip viewing enemy/allied/neutral turns.
More terrain, like hedges, fences and the like.
X-Com or JA2's inventory system
Campaign map with locations to 'conquer' or 'defend'. Think Syndicate or the Total War games.
Research and development into new weapons and equipment a la Syndicate.
Missions to steal and recover technology.
A modern day or cyberpunk near-futuristic setting.

Tweak:
Stealth efficiency


Result: Plenty of close-quarters combat in open areas mainly involving modern day SMG weapons and lots of tactics. Kind of like the CS Map de_prodigy. Sniper alleys suck!

As you can see, I have a huge hardon for Syndicate, too.

 

[Sol Invictus]

[Both pity and utter amazment that SS only sold 20k copies *gulp*

WHAT? Holy crap... Even Arcanum sold more, and I've heard it being referred to as a major flop...

S2 had little to no advertising and not many copies were even published to begin with in the US, so most people didn't even know it was out in the states, or couldn't even get it at their local stores if they wanted to.

The box cover art also sucked, big time.

 

[Sotka]

All in all Silent Storm is a game with an incredible amount of potential, if only some of the features were removed, or rebalanced. Here's my suggestions:

Stuff to remove:
Panzerkleins
Ultra long range sniper rifles
The RPG system
The horrible inventory system
Linear mission map

Add:
Remove the RPG system and replace it with a skill system like the one in JA2.
The ability to skip viewing enemy/allied/neutral turns.
More terrain, like hedges, fences and the like.
X-Com or JA2's inventory system
Campaign map with locations to 'conquer' or 'defend'. Think Syndicate or the Total War games.
Research and development into new weapons and equipment a la Syndicate.
Missions to steal and recover technology.
A modern day or cyberpunk near-futuristic setting.

Tweak:
Stealth efficiency

You pictured an ideal tactics game, imo; hope Nival wil read this. If implemented right it would be my favourite game.

I'd add hidden technology trees a-la X-Com (more intricate), and microeconomics a-la JA, we'd get all pros of JA, UFO and Syndicate in one bottle. Instead Nival develops NightWatch semi RPG which probably won't sell in Western countries if heavily based on lachrymose pseudo-phylosophical fiction story as very likely planned (because it was inspired with movie success), and as truncated as SS in gameplay. And so-called Twilight was already introduced in Kult as a Dreamworld, regardless of underlying scheme.

And yes they should fire that idiot who devised panzerkleins. Might it be same person who designed the box?

 

[Jinxed]

Ultra long range sniper rifles
The RPG system
The horrible inventory system

Well first off, I don't really recall ULTRA long range sniper rifles. There were scoped rifles that indeed had better range than machineguns but that just makes sense. Removing a range bonus on some of these rifles nerfes the sniper class. And that kinda goes against the already shaky balance in SS.

RPG system huh? I mentioned this on IRC to you, I don't want them to remove it. I've played games like JA2 and UFO to utter death. And then along comes SS that does things different and what do you do? You scream to take it out. Tell you what, try playing those other games a little bit more and once you get bored come back to play SS.

Inventory system could be improved on yes, but it's not HORRIBLE as you put it. What bugs me about it is that it's unreastically big, but that doesn't ruin the fun of the game.

Add:
Remove the RPG system and replace it with a skill system like the one in JA2.
The ability to skip viewing enemy/allied/neutral turns.
More terrain, like hedges, fences and the like.
X-Com or JA2's inventory system

I addressed this point above.
I'm not sure if skipping entirely is possible, but a boost to speed would go a long way.
I think the terrain is good enough, sure, they could add more stuff but to me, there's already enough types.
I'm not sure where you are getting with the inventory idea, as JA2 and UFO had vastly different systems. JA2 had a rather large inventory, with different slots for 2 handed items and small items. Items were stackable as well. I don't remember any of that in UFO.

Campaign map with locations to 'conquer' or 'defend'. Think Syndicate or the Total War games.
Research and development into new weapons and equipment a la Syndicate.
Missions to steal and recover technology.
A modern day or cyberpunk near-futuristic setting.

Meaning, make a completly different game because this one blows?

Tweak:
Stealth efficiency

Can't argue with you there, sneak was totally weird.

Result: Plenty of close-quarters combat in open areas mainly involving modern day SMG weapons and lots of tactics. Kind of like the CS Map de_prodigy. Sniper alleys suck! As you can see, I have a huge hardon for Syndicate, too.

You will never get rid of sniping. The only area that allows close quarter tactics are the inside locations of buildings. You can sneak around and perform turkey shots by interrupts. You cannot continue to shoot from behind cover in close quarters because you will have grenades thrown at you. The idea is to shoot and run which usually means you won't be coming back to the place you were. How do you play close combat? I bet it looks like sniping alley at short range.

Open areas prove to be long range fighting, because if anyone leaves cover and runs towards you, they will no doubt get shredded to bits by gunfire from mahcine guns. An open area allows you to spread around and ambush anyone.

BTW, most people don't realise that 1 square in JA2 = 10 meters. So technically speaking, grenade range was really weird, and close combat not really present anywhere.

 

[Circuitbreaker]

You pictured an ideal tactics game, imo; hope Nival wil read this. If implemented right it would be my favourite game.

And yes they should fire that idiot who devised panzerkleins. Might it be same person who designed the box?

What Exitium suggests almost sounds like a mix of UFO:Aftermath and Silent Storm. Both these games showed promise but failed to deliver, although Silent Storm (especially Sentinels) comes close whereas UFO:Aftermath has some really severe flaws.

Note that the European box for Silent Storm does not look that amateuristic, so that's likely the US publisher's doing.

 

[Jinxed]

Aftermath was UTTER SHIT in one of the most important factors. I actually did a bit of flip flopping of my own when I played it. I thought it was great. Until I suddenly got bored beyong bored. If I could, I would delete the memory of playing it as well.

Everything in that game was great except combat. No matter what some people may say, most of the greatness of the UFO games was the combat.