KickStarter Stoneshard - open world roguelike RPG - now available on Early Access

[The Wall]

When will this be finished?

Dev speculated on Discord 2026. Maybe later

I'll compile list of recent updates about development, Devs regularly post on Steam forums and Discord. LeadDev argues too much with casual fags, balance fags and when's next update fags but does so in often amusing way

 

[mediocrepoet]

And this is why I am trying not to Kickstart/EA anymore. Nothing quite like seeing something interesting and then having it maybe delivered a decade later and then find that you're not even into that genre anymore, etc.

 

[The Wall]

And this is why I am trying not to Kickstart/EA anymore. Nothing quite like seeing something interesting and then having it maybe delivered a decade later and then find that you're not even into that genre anymore, etc.

Problem is: these Devs have zero management skills and my theory is that at some point with decent sales from Early Access they can kick back and relax, not overwork themselves, take sweeeeet time and enjoy comfort of little bit of coding, little bit of wifey shagging, little bit of arguing on Steam forums with critics, little bit of new sales from discount, little bit devdairy writing etc. Biggest issue is re-doing and re-designing same systems for 9 times. They fall into comfort hole, and comfort kills

 

[mediocrepoet]

And this is why I am trying not to Kickstart/EA anymore. Nothing quite like seeing something interesting and then having it maybe delivered a decade later and then find that you're not even into that genre anymore, etc.

Problem is: these Devs have zero management skills and my theory is that at some point with decent sales from Early Access they can kick back and relax, not overwork themselves, take sweeeeet time and enjoy comfort of little bit of coding, little bit of wifey shagging, little bit of arguing on Steam forums with critics, little bit of new sales from discount, little bit devdairy writing etc. Biggest issue is re-doing and re-designing same systems for 9 times. They fall into comfort hole, and comfort kills

Yes, you've nailed it, especially if it's a side business. And that's all fine, they can do what they like. It's just insane to support it before it's done, or at least done to a point where the value proposition is complete enough for you to want to play it and feel like you already got your money's worth.

 

[The Wall]

or at least done to a point where the value proposition is complete enough for you to want to play it and feel like you already got your money's worth.

LeadDev for Stoneshard repeatedly argues that such value treshold is something current version of Stoneshard has achieved. You might agree/disagree with him, but what are solutions? One is yours: simply don't buy Early Access games which you estimate are not finished enough so much so any additional updates would be cherries on top of cake. Fair enough. That's one solution

Problem with Stoneshard is that it has critical gameplay and role-playing systems missing 4 years after rolling into Early Access. You wanna bite that banana cake, it tastes nice but there ain't no bananas yet

 

[The Wall]

Perhaps Early Access should be seen as Patronship first and foremost. I remember when it was first introduced by Steam that it was sold as such idea. Fact is: 9/10 cult indies made in last 10 years wouldn't have been made without Early Access, that money is substitute for Publisher's $$$. BIG game changer in game development

Maybe only buy Early Access from Devs with good Early Access experience? I had zero problems donating 20€ to ATOM Team's Swordhaven (ATOM and Trudograd were both in Early Access), but I would have issues doing that for Stoneshard 2. Similar team size, from similar area affected by War, one Team produced 2 games and makes 3ed one, while the other Team still writes dev diaries for their 1st game

I love Stoneshard and Russian RPG autism but c'mon. 9+ months have passed since last update that changed 0.X in game version

 

[The Wall]

Ahh... Ok, here we go. Just checked:

>last hotfix in October 2023
>last small content update in September 2023
>last major update (the one that raised the version to current 0.8) was in AUGUST 2022

 

[Jacov]

For me, the problem with Stoneshard is that it's a shallow game. It's not as engaging as some other roguelikes because it doesn't have variety and story generation. And it's not as interesting as some other CRPGs due to not having a deep enough chargen and good exploration.
Every time I launch Stoneshard, I walk around for a few hours, hit bad guys with a paddle, then ask myself: Why am I playing this and not some other, better RL or CRPG.
Of course it's unreasonable to ask them to deliver a game that I expect, and not the game that they want to make. But it simply doesn't hold up against other similar games. And after years I'm starting to think that the game that they want to make is just this: walking around, clicking on enemies, clearing samey dungeons and watching numbers go up. They can add the caravan, custom characters, whatever. But all of it will just make the game grow wide and not deep.

 

[The Wall]

They gave up on much of World simulation and procedural generation, kingdom Aldor is in truce amidst raging civil war, that was initially planned to be simulated Stalker like. Thus procedural storytelling is not there and scripted storytelling is also not there because quests will be added with 1.0 release. So what they are left with is adding bunch of systems, bunch of locations and bunch of pretty pixal art. The last part made them 90% of profit

It's pretty game to look at. Used to be hard, they took out all the teeth so that casuals won't be beaten in the ass. It's good for what it is

 

[mediocrepoet]

Gross. Wish I could go back in time and refund it.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Actually because I was curious, I looked the refund policy up and apparently I can refund it. Think I'm going to make sure I got it from steam and for how much and see if they'll process it.

I've never launched the fucking thing, just thought because the transaction was so old I couldn't, but they never actually fully released the game.

REFUNDS ON TITLES PURCHASED PRIOR TO RELEASE DATE​

When you purchase a title on Steam prior to the release date, the two-hour playtime limit for refunds will apply (except for beta testing), but the 14-day period for refunds will not start until the release date. For example, if you purchase a game that is in Early Access or Advanced Access, any playtime will count against the two-hour refund limit. If you pre-purchase a title which is not playable prior to the release date, you can request a refund at any time prior to release of that title, and the standard 14-day/two-hour refund period will apply starting on the game’s release date.

 

[The Wall]

Ahh... Ok, here we go. Just checked:

>last hotfix in October 2023
>last small content update in September 2023
>last major update (the one that raised the version to current 0.8) was in AUGUST 2022

This is the most damning part of whole story. Current update called Rags to Ritches has started development around August 2022. We are in May 2024. That's 20 months. We're still waiting

Big, devastating War happened and they had to relocate. Ok. 6 months for that. Am I heartless when I say that? Or are they abusing the tragedy after so many months passed? They did tone down using War as explanation

So: for 14 months current update Rags to Ritches has been in development. In meantime they released 3 small content updates adding new enemies, new items, few new locations and 1-2 new skill trees

There's PROBLEM. I love Stoneshard, love idea, love pixel art, love LeadDev, but it's mighty frustrating to see them gaslight players that everything is perfectly fine with development

 

[The Wall]

ATOM Team is so similar or almost exactly the same group. From Russia, Ukraine and Latvia. Almost exactly same team size. Less sales, less successful Kickstarter, lesser price of game sold. ATOM + Trudograd finished cost as much as Stoneshard in Early Access. Completely different output with their 3ed game's Kickstarter just being finished and them releasing Early Access this year

Things should always be put in perspective and compared. Only then you have true view of situation

 

[The Wall]

And this is why I am trying not to Kickstart/EA anymore

I think it's not so much concept and system of Early Access. That's what I'm trying to say all along, but neither I realized what was I trying to say until this moment. Truth is simple, lies are complex

It's Devs. Always has been

 

[Fedora Master]

Indefinite Early Access was a mistake.

 

[Jacov]

Or are they abusing the tragedy after so many months passed?

I don't think I've seen them using war as an excuse. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't read every post.

 

[The Wall]

Indefinite Early Access was a mistake.

I'm happy with current version of Stoneshard. But it was mistake normalizing Kickstarter being done in 2018. and game still in 2024. being unfinished. So many things from Kickstarter era changed. Not design just, but promises

Stoneshard won't receive ANY DLCs/expansions. One was reached during Kickstarter as stretch goal. LeadDev even said how he can't wait to stop working on Stoneshard. As I said, many game updates can be found in Russian section of Stoneshard Discord

LeadDev's #1 answer to any question particularly game ideas in past 6 months has been: "No"

And then, there is this gem:

Stoneshard will release on Steam Early Access in December 2018. We're aiming to release the full game during Q2-Q3 2019 for Windows, Mac, and Linux (Steam). After that, we're planning to release the game on PlayStation 4, Nintendo Switch and Xbox One in the fall of 2019.

 

[The Wall]

Or are they abusing the tragedy after so many months passed?

I don't think I've seen them using war as an excuse. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't read every post.

They definitely did. Many, many times did. Stopped a year ago. They are from St. Petersburg, where zero bombs fell. Part of team was from Ukraine (artists I believe). They left Russia because they had no access to their Steam money revenue, bank account was frozen. They are currently in Balkans or Cyprus

I very much like Stoneshard and follow its development closely. Wish Devs the best

 

[Jacov]

If they stopped after they settled in other countries then I don't see a problem.

 

[The Wall]

If they stopped after they settled in other countries then I don't see a problem.

Agreed. But what's the problem Boss, then? They have 2 more Dev Dairies to post before announcing release date for Rags to Ritches update

There was also small controversy with their codebase. Some Russian fan opened their source code and was horrified with spaghetti code found there. Nested infinite IF statements, no classes used and horrors like that. There should be and there are explanations for previous similarly sized or bigger updates taking 4-6 months and this one taking 20 months. Let's stop pretending we are retarded

 

[Jacov]

If they stopped after they settled in other countries then I don't see a problem.

Agreed. But what's the problem Boss, then? They have 2 more Dev Dairies to post before announcing release date for Rags to Ritches update

There was also small contraversy with their codebase. Some Russian fan opened their source code and was horrified with spaghetti code found there. Nested infinite IF statements, no classes used and horrors like that

Maybe that's the thing then? They don't have a good developing pipeline? They suck at coding? Don't want to be an asshole, so it's either this or they had to find a day job aside from gamedev to sustain themselves and their families after the move.

Also, how did that fan get access to the source code? Do you have a link to his discoveries?

 

[The Wall]

If they stopped after they settled in other countries then I don't see a problem.

Agreed. But what's the problem Boss, then? They have 2 more Dev Dairies to post before announcing release date for Rags to Ritches update

There was also small contraversy with their codebase. Some Russian fan opened their source code and was horrified with spaghetti code found there. Nested infinite IF statements, no classes used and horrors like that

Maybe that's the thing then? They don't have a good developing pipeline? They suck at coding? Don't want to be an asshole, so it's either this or they had to find a day job aside from gamedev to sustain themselves and their families after the move.

Also, how did that fan get access to the source code? Do you have a link to his discoveries?

I'll try to find it. Also conversations between him and LeadDev on Discord. Engine they are using is Game Maker Studio 2. They received criticism for that too. Stoneshard has no mod tools but fans have managed to make mods for it, adding Geralt from Witcher etc.

I remember that Russian fan saying how from what he saw in codebase Devs are afraid of changing single component in UI because that could destroy everything. Code is allegedly THAT tangled. Zero modularity in codebase

Not unheared. Didn't Battle Brothers (with less reviews on Steam then Stoneshard but still a lot) Devs use HTML or something as part of their game?!

 

[The Wall]

They suck at coding? Don't want to be an asshole, so it's either this or they had to find a day job aside from gamedev to sustain themselves and their families after the move.

Explanations are simple and probably along these lines. Agreed. But biggest problem is them arguing with mostly Russian part of audience about project being years late and not seeking solutions

 

[normie]

the code being a mess was to be expected, specifically after they nigger-rigged a save system to the game

 

[Jacov]

I remember that Russian fan saying how from what he saw in codebase Devs are afraid of changing single component in UI because that could destroy everything. Code is allegedly that tangled

I remember them saying something along the lines of «we can't add saving because of the engine» and then they re-coded chunks of the game from scratch to fix that issue. Something like that. I don't remember specifically, it was some time.

But biggest problems is them arguing with mostly Russian part of audience about being late and not seeking solutions

I can understand them thinking it's neccessary to defend themselves on Steam forums, but it doesn't look good when the main dev wastes time arguing instead of actually developing the game. And it must be taxing on one's sanity, having to deal with all those people.