Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

KickStarter Tainted Grail: The Fall of Avalon - first-person open world RPG adaptation of Kickstarted board game - now on Early Access

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
Patron
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
12,183
Location
Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Picked this up on sale, definitely a good time. Skyrim clone fitted with some actual RPG mechanics and exploration, creepy lore. Should be interesting when they actually finish it, but fun enough to putz around with for now either way.

You were right Cryomancer. :salute:
 

BruceVC

Magister
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
8,226
Location
South Africa, Cape Town
Picked this up on sale, definitely a good time. Skyrim clone fitted with some actual RPG mechanics and exploration, creepy lore. Should be interesting when they actually finish it, but fun enough to putz around with for now either way.

You were right Cryomancer. :salute:
I bought this game years ago, Im just waiting for it to be finished before I play it. How long until final release, have the devs said anything?
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
Patron
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
12,183
Location
Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
I bought this game years ago, Im just waiting for it to be finished before I play it. How long until final release, have the devs said anything?

Eh, the general EA window they suggested would end somewhere between like January and September 2024. So hopefully sometime in the next year or so, depending on how long the finished game actually is. Apparently the prologue and complete chapter 1 is up now, though not finished or polished, of course.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
14,938
Location
Frostfell
I consider the game closer to Morrowind than to Skyrim. Anyway, many people don't listen to my recommendations because I tend to enjoy magery a lot but I'm very honest when I like a game only due its magery(eg - Gothic 3 I loved to play it as an water magician but the game lacks anything good for a non mage fan) and that this game seems to be great in other aspects as well. Notably exploration and setting.
 
Last edited:

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
Patron
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
12,183
Location
Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
I consider the game closer to Morrowind than to Skyrim. Anyway, many people don't listen to my recommendations because I tend to enjoy magery a lot but I'm very honest when I like a game only due its magery(eg - Gothic 3 I loved to play it as an water magician but the game lacks anything good for a non mage fan) and that this game seems to be great in other aspects as well. Notably exploration and setting.
I mostly just give you a hard time for the lulz. This one always looked interesting, I just wanted it to be fleshed out a bit more before peeking.

I agree about the Morrowind comparison, but in terms of presentation, it's more like if you ported Morrowind into Oblivion or Skyrim.
 

HoboForEternity

sunset tequila
Patron
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
9,220
Location
Disco Elysium
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Last time i watched a video about this, it was super jank but if it has good progression and itemization i will get it. Good itemization is so rare in open world games and it's fucking sad
 

Readher

Savant
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
637
Location
Poland
Don't know how the game was before the big 0.6 update, but I bought it 2 days ago on sale and can't put it down. Location design does scream "budget" for 2023 standards, but there's a lot of nice dialogue to be had, pretty cool quests and combat is really nice. Some janky animations and the lighting is weird (lacks global illumination I think, or it's badly implemented), but overall very enjoyable.

There's even a fun quest where a soldier found a book about re-creation of some very old armor that's supposedly superb, but neither the quartermaster nor the blacksmith want to listen to him. He gives you the book and you can craft it. On the crafting screen, it appears with excellent stats, just as promised, but when you actually craft it, it turns out to be absolutely garbage. Pretty cool twist.

The sense of wonder is probably the biggest draw for me. The setting is unique, and I have no idea what to expect, so there's this huge draw to explore every location and see what I might find.
 

Readher

Savant
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
637
Location
Poland
Managed to craft a full set of knight armor. It sure is heavy (as it should be).
nfd4rqO.jpg

Polish Border Guard about """Belarussian""" immigrants:
3BWF9zm.png

RFzwbPk.png
 
Last edited:

Readher

Savant
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
637
Location
Poland
Finished what's there of the main quest at the moment, still have a bunch of side quests left and a few locations unexplored. This is some really good shit. There's a pretty big decision nearing the end of the current storyline that has 3 branches, which should have quite a big impact in the future. Quite a few twists that are hard to predict, and I just really enjoy the setting.

The negative is, you can easily break the game with certain weapon and perk combinations. I was one-hitting normal enemies with normal attack at some point, and bosses with heavy attack. Guess they were inspired by Morrowind when it comes to that too.
RNHJfhQ.png
 

HoboForEternity

sunset tequila
Patron
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
9,220
Location
Disco Elysium
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Finished what's there of the main quest at the moment, still have a bunch of side quests left and a few locations unexplored. This is some really good shit. There's a pretty big decision nearing the end of the current storyline that has 3 branches, which should have quite a big impact in the future. Quite a few twists that are hard to predict, and I just really enjoy the setting.

The negative is, you can easily break the game with certain weapon and perk combinations. I was one-hitting normal enemies with normal attack at some point, and bosses with heavy attack. Guess they were inspired by Morrowind when it comes to that too.
RNHJfhQ.png
Very incline imo. Even if it breaks the game. The items should have synergy with character skills or effects
 

Jinn

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
5,023
The negative is, you can easily break the game with certain weapon and perk combinations. I was one-hitting normal enemies with normal attack at some point, and bosses with heavy attack. Guess they were inspired by Morrowind when it comes to that too.
You should consider giving that feedback directly to the developers. They seem pretty open to criticisms and making changes. I like when games are imbalanced to a degree, and usually won't take advantage of cheese myself, but I don't like when a game can outright be broken. You shouldn't be deprived of the joy of a challenge just because you figure out a clever build.
 

Readher

Savant
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
637
Location
Poland
The negative is, you can easily break the game with certain weapon and perk combinations. I was one-hitting normal enemies with normal attack at some point, and bosses with heavy attack. Guess they were inspired by Morrowind when it comes to that too.
You should consider giving that feedback directly to the developers. They seem pretty open to criticisms and making changes. I like when games are imbalanced to a degree, and usually won't take advantage of cheese myself, but I don't like when a game can outright be broken. You shouldn't be deprived of the joy of a challenge just because you figure out a clever build.
Yeah, I'll definitely write some feedback once I finish up the side quests I have left.
 

Readher

Savant
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
637
Location
Poland
Here's what I posted in feedback on their Discord. Some story spoilers, but personally I don't think they matter that much without any context.
Story:
* Writing is really good. Fits the setting, no unnecessary cringe, nice plot twists, multiple solutions, actual moral dillemas. Nothing to complain on that front really.
* There is one thing where I believe some improvement could be made. Considering the setting's gender roles, I think the game could use more gender reactivity. I think the only time the fact I was playing a female character was referenced happened during the conversation with Fearghas after I killed the captain (something along the lines of "Traditionally, only men were allowed to become Keepers"). There were many more conversations where bringing up the fact MC is female would make sense, considering men being fighters is the nature of the day in the setting, and you can count fighting women on one hand I believe. I distinctly recall a convo with Fearghas where he says he'd rather have Orlaith gone since she's distracting his men, somehow ignoring the fact that MC is a woman and interacting with everyone in the Keep too. Dal Riata camp is another obvious place where it'd make sense for it to be acknowledged, considering their leader.

Combat:
* Feels really nice. Not banal like in every TES title (aside from balancing, but I'll cover that separately), but not a chore like in some games either.
* Some animations could probably use a bit of polishing, to make it feel even more fluid.
* I used 1H + Shield, 2H and Bows only, so can't really talk about dual wielding or sneaky combat.
* Pretty sure others brought it up already, but getting some polearm weapons would be great if time/budget/balance0 will allow it.

Balance:
* Game is quite hard at the start, but once you get a few levels and understand how the game works, it's extremely easy to break it. You can craft the Knight's Armor very early in the game and its stats are insane. Can get +50 armor from Mystic Ward on top of that. Combining perks like Killer Instinct, Unstoppable Assault, Opportunist, Swordbreaker and weapons like Doombringer is bound to break the game. The perks either need a rework, or leveling needs to be much slower and harder, or the stat requirements for each perk tier higher. I'm sure you'll figure out the best solution. As it is, I was getting levels quite easily all the time, and then there was that Giant's Bone or whatever it was called that gives you 5 free attribute points while only costing 4k (was quite easy to afford, I had like 10k at that point). It made getting every perk I could possibly want a breeze. The perks are so powerful that there's little incentive not to bring a few stats to 11 to get access to them, instead of a more focused build with 1-2 dumpstats.

Sound:
* Voice acting is really good.
* Some recordings seem to have uneven volume compared to the rest (noticeably louder/quieter).
* Game could use more tracks. What's there is very good, but it gets repetitive rather quickly.

Other:
* Don't know if it's something wrong with my game, but it seems it's way too bright at all times and night doesn't really happen. The amount of times I thought it was middle of the day, only to go into rest menu and see it's supposed to be midnight was baffling. Lighting in general seems to not really work correctly. Feels too static, as if Global Illumination wasn't present.
* Theft/Ownership system seems to be broken. A lot of items that should definitely be marked as owned are free for grabs, notably everything in the Horns that isn't inside buildings, including items next to storekeepers. It's also very easy to steal many items since they're left unattended and there's no one patrolling their routes. More patrolling NPCs would make sense. You can also sleep in others' bed without any consequences.
* The bounty system/NPC aggro is broken too. I killed the Captain in my main playthrough, but also checked how everything plays out if you kill One-Eye. I went to the temple, attacked the guy and only he went aggro, killed him and got a bounty, and everyone in the temple and outside was still friendly to me and didn't react at all. I expected everyone in the temple to gang up on me the moment I started the fight. Definitely needs work.
* Crafting seems fairly redundant. I only used it for the Knight's Armor, iron arrows and when questes demanded it. There need to be craftable items that rival the stuff you can find in the world, otherwise it'll be largely redundant. Maybe some option of "removing" the special effect of unique weapons so that you can apply them to others? Combine that with being able to craft all weapon types, it'd make it more viable I think. There are also problems with some items not being recognized as crafting materials, despite being in the inventory. I also find it bizarre that there are seemingly two types of rope, with different icons but exactly the same name, and only one can be used for crafting.
* Some kind of death animation where you fall over would be nice. Screen suddenly fading to black and to menu is a bit jarring and feels cheap.
* I'd like more information about my current stats. For example, there should be a list of all the bonuses I got from the unique consumables that give permanent stats (under active effects perhaps?), and either I'm blind, or you can't see what your current total armor is anywhere. Things like health regen, mana regen, stamina regen, attack speed, etc. could be listed somewhere too I think.

I forgot about performance. The game is quite demanding for how it looks, but it ran 60-140 for me at all times at max settings and without FSR (5800X3D, RX 6800) with the exception of Mistbearer fight, where the fog tanked my framerate to near slideshow whenever skeletons spawned. So not great, but not terrible either.
 

ADL

Prophet
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Messages
3,782
Location
Nantucket
Asked on the steam forums but no response so far. Is this playable without the quest compass like Gothic and Morrowind? Playing Skyrim without it is basically impossible and that ruined the game for me because I was staring at the HUD instead of immersing myself in the world.

Edit: I meant whether it's actually viable or not.
 
Last edited:

Readher

Savant
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
637
Location
Poland
Asked on the steam forums but no response so far. Is this playable without the quest compass like Gothic and Morrowind? Playing Skyrim without it is basically impossible and that ruined the game for me because I was staring at the HUD instead of immersing myself in the world.
Are you asking whether you can turn the compass off, or whether it's viable to play with it disabled?

If it's the former, then I don't remember, would have to check after work. If it's the latter, then I can't see there being much of a problem. The landscape isn't very big (though it'll be expanded with future updates), so it's hard to get lost, and there are fairly memorable locations scattered around that can serve as waypoints. And if push comes to shove, you can always open the map - in some quests it's directly mentioned that the NPC marks a location on it.
 

Readher

Savant
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
637
Location
Poland
I figured I'd do a write-up about the choices you get to make at the end of the current version, since I think it's one of the better cases of an actual hard choice to make without a clear "best" option. Obvious heavy spoilers, so beware if you care about that.

First some background. During the main story we get to learn that the Captain of the keep which serves as the main settlement, Horns of the South, didn't in fact close himself in his room and ordered lockdown as soldiers are led to believe. We're informed by Fearghas, the keep's quartermaster who's in charge in the Captain's absence, that it's just something he came up with to prevent panic. The reality is that the Captain has left the keep and was taken hostage by Dal Riata (or so Fearghas believes).

Why rescuing the Captain should be a priority should be obvious, but even then, there's a second incentive, and a very strong one at that.

Enter Sir Galahad.

k60JZuL.png

YEltR1X.png


Now, the Sir Galahad in question is far from the one we know from the legends, or Monty Python for that matter. In Fall of Avalon, Galahad is a title held by the knight serving as Kamelot's representative to the South. It just so happens that the current Galahad earns his title "the Pure" by purifying every land he steps on so thoroughly, that there's nothing left to be corrupted.
Sr6hoGd.png

zlx4h14.png

dqcrAoH.png

hSmjZb1.png


So now we're on the clock to get Captain back so that everything appears at least somewhat in order when Galahad pays the visit. The temple Captain is being held in is in the back of Dal Riata camp. You can get access to it in two ways - either gain Dal Riata favor by doing quests for them and impressing their "camp leader" (different from overall leader) or just fight your way in. Regardless of the choosen method, once you enter the temple, you get to witness a scene you likely didn't except. The Captain isn't a prisoner, but rather discusses alliance with the Dal Riata leader, One-Eye. He assures you there's a good reason for his betrayal of Kamelot, and together with One-Eye they give you directions and a special key to a hidden crypt. There you can find out that the beloved by everyone Arthur was so obsessed with gaining immortality that he was willing to take his most trusted friends' lives (and deaths) to achieve it.

When you leave the crypt, you're confronted by the Captain and after briefly discussing what you've just seen, he informs you that the current crisis can't be solved without anyone dying and you need to make the big choice. You can

  • Agree to kill Sir Galahad and go along with Captain's plan for independent South in alliance with Dal Riata.
  • Agree to kill One-Eye.
  • The Captain did say someone needs to die, and it might as well be him. Kill the Captain for betraying Kamelot.

Now, killing Galahad might seem like the obvious "good" option here. Everyone says he's terrible, people call him "Royal Butcher". Just get rid of him and the South can live happily ever after, independent and in friendship with Dal Riata, right?

Sure, the "ending slides" that come after this path might make you believe that, but what's actually great is that you get a lot of different information about Galahad, Kamelot's power and Captain's personality when playing each of the paths. For example, when you decide to kill Galahad, you get to talk with him quite a lot before the inevitable duel. He's clearly violent, but he's not stupid. He recognizes the fighting prowess of Dal Riata, but calls them out on inexperience in dealing with the terrors of the island. Even though he's annoyed at how much gold is being poured into the South, he mentions clearly that united Kamelot and Horns of the South is the only way for humans to survive. In any case, killing Galahad results in a talk between the Captain and Fearghas. The latter can't quite believe the plot and is shaken by what's happened. He mentions that despite Dal Riata's fighting spirit, their way of conducting combat is no match for Kamelot's advanced tactics. He eventually leaves to process what just happened and cool off. The ending slides tell of the inevitable consequences of killing a Knight of the Round Table, but also potential hope for a better, independent South.

Then you have the second option. Killing One-Eye. This results in Galahad coming to the Horns and having a chat with Captain, Fearghas and eventually you.
hb889Hi.png


He's unhappy with what he sees. He planned to visit the Temple, but is informed that it's being held by Dal Riata. Thankfully, you arrive to save the day and inform him that One-Eye is dead. This largely satisfies him and he leaves. What's interesting in this route is what we learn of the Captain from the ending slides.
kj1xBtt.png

v4oDEry.png


Throwing random people under the bus just to save his own skin? Not quite the noble person you probably thought him to be, eh? Hell, when you tell him you're going to kill One-Eye back at the crypt, he outright tells you that should you ever try to rat him out, he'll drag you down with him.

As for what happens to Dal Riata with their leader deposed?
S4pk4q7.png

kHPF7H2.png



And now we arrive at the third option, killing the Captain. What follows is talk with Fearghas, who informs us that treason is inexcusable and we did the right thing. He also says that Galahad will appoint a new Captain. We don't actually get to meet the Knight in this route, but I imagine it will change with future updates. The ending slides give us a good idea of his actions, though (love the art of those slides btw).
yv63Rdn.png

Yfad01C.png

GjT3ffF.png

4TkwFhV.png


When you actually look at the state South is in, and the Horns by extension, Galahad's actions doesn't seem that unjustified anymore. He goes overboard, sure, but not without reason. The keep's gate """guard""" is literally asleep most of the time, with the excuse being "everyone needs some kind of job, regardless of their ability". He's supposed to be a soldier, whip him into shape ffs. Then everywhere outside the keep is just swarming with bandits and monsters. The Captain claims he came up with the project of building a second lighthouse, which he knew would be approved by Kamelot for historical/symbolic reasons, but was actually using the funds for other, important things. But my question is, what things? The whole place is in fucking shambles, where did all the money go?

As for all the big talk about independent South, it seems like Fearghas was right. All it took was Galahad and a few Kamelot knights to dispose of the Dal Riata.

Also, our favorite quartermaster got a promotion.
jTS6JIR.png


So there you have it. Three options, with vastly different outcomes, but with no clear winner. You can either opt for an idealistic vision of independent South that seems to be lacking power to actually achieve that and might end up victim of Kamelot's retribution, a status quo that largely spares non-Dal Riata population from any terror, or strengthening of ties between Kamelot and Horns at the cost of Kamelot's corruption being left unattended and Galahad's "purification" of the land.

I went with the third option as my "main" (mostly because I'm a sucker for "bad" guys as long as they're cool looking), but I totally view all of them as viable and logical (the second one probably being the least appealing), which was a rather nice surprise for me.
jKt8RKK.png


Thanks for reading my blog, I guess.
 
Last edited:

Salvo

Arcane
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
1,395
As a big fan of the tabletop game, I'm holding out until this is finished.
Posts like above make me hope for strong writing to make up for the flaws an open world like this might have.
 

ADL

Prophet
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Messages
3,782
Location
Nantucket
Are you asking whether you can turn the compass off, or whether it's viable to play with it disabled?

If it's the former, then I don't remember, would have to check after work. If it's the latter, then I can't see there being much of a problem. The landscape isn't very big (though it'll be expanded with future updates), so it's hard to get lost, and there are fairly memorable locations scattered around that can serve as waypoints. And if push comes to shove, you can always open the map - in some quests it's directly mentioned that the NPC marks a location on it.
Ended up buying this during the steam sale and I'm extremely impressed. 10 hours in two days is a lot for me. Honestly I didn't expect to play past the tutorial. Usually I wait for the 1.0 release but I can't stop playing. I've been navigating off landmarks and NPC dialog exclusively, been able to get around just fine. Haven't looked at the map once. My only feedback is that they need to improve the NPC scheduling and improve reactivity because I've been robbing everyone blind with zero risk or repercussions as long as they're sleeping or out of sight. A hardcore mode that would enforce basic things like eating/sleeping and long term injury would be nice.

Also surprisingly, the lore is keeping me engaged. I didn't play conquest so I had zero knowledge of the IP beforehand but this game has an interesting world that I want to keep exploring.
 

Readher

Savant
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
637
Location
Poland
Are you asking whether you can turn the compass off, or whether it's viable to play with it disabled?

If it's the former, then I don't remember, would have to check after work. If it's the latter, then I can't see there being much of a problem. The landscape isn't very big (though it'll be expanded with future updates), so it's hard to get lost, and there are fairly memorable locations scattered around that can serve as waypoints. And if push comes to shove, you can always open the map - in some quests it's directly mentioned that the NPC marks a location on it.
Ended up buying this during the steam sale and I'm extremely impressed. 10 hours in two days is a lot for me. Honestly I didn't expect to play past the tutorial. Usually I wait for the 1.0 release but I can't stop playing. I've been navigating off landmarks and NPC dialog exclusively, been able to get around just fine. Haven't looked at the map once. My only feedback is that they need to improve the NPC scheduling and improve reactivity because I've been robbing everyone blind with zero risk or repercussions as long as they're sleeping or out of sight. A hardcore mode that would enforce basic things like eating/sleeping and long term injury would be nice.

Also surprisingly, the lore is keeping me engaged. I didn't play conquest so I had zero knowledge of the IP beforehand but this game has an interesting world that I want to keep exploring.
The devs already said that they'll be improving the thievery/bounty system as it's only the first iteration. Problem with night and schedule is also being brought quite often by many people, so I'm sure they'll improve on that as well. I posted their reply to my feedback above.

They also talked about a mode with drinking/eating on the Steam forum. Can't remember what they said exactly, but pretty sure it was something they're considering, but only after more important things are done.

And yeah, I absolutely love the setting and lore as well. It feels as if it was tailor-made for me.
 

Readher

Savant
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
637
Location
Poland
Wait so is this actually a good open world RPG? Is it in full release now?
No, it's still in EA, which you can easily check by going to the game's Steam page...

And the open-world is more hub-sized right now, though it's supposed to expand with updates and story continuation.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom