Might and Magic dark messiah demo out

[Balor]

So stealing is OK if it's something you don't really like?

Stealing is ok when people selling will not gain or lose something either way.
And besides, I think paying for Oblivion is actally harmfuls. That's 'voting with your wallet' for dumbification of CRPGs.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

People sure do have completely absurd justifications for things these days.

 

[Seboss]

And oh, stop mentioning DBTS or severance. They fucking sucked. I even bought the former as new. Shittiest game I ever bought. Taught me to not buy games trusting on reviews alone.
EDIT: And battles of arx fatalis? Funnier than these? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You're probably same guys who thinks Gothic series has proper combat system.

I agree with that guy. Arx Fatalis and Gothic are excellent games despite their botched combat systems.
Luckily RPGs are not just about "running around and killing stuff". I still can't believe an actual RPG designer could declare such an idiotic remark.

 

[Balor]

Anyway, what's stealing?
When you take something AWAY from someone, you gain it, and he no longer has it.
That's stealing.
If you use Linux, or pirate Windows - M$ neither gains, nor loses anything either way.
So, next thing M$ will start to sue people using Linux for not buying Windows, huh?

When I buy software products, I do so to encorate making more and better similar software products.
And I do buy them. Just not everything I try worth encoraging.
Same with ebooks, etc.

 

[Jasede]

Huh?

Scenario 1: You use Linux instead of Windows.
-> Microsoft does not make $$ because you choose to use a free product instead. You are also provided with an OS.
-> You have something you haven't had before without paying for it. But the something is free. You have not stolen.

Scenario 2: You pirate Windows.
-> Microsoft loses the money that you haven't used to buy Windows. The morally correct choice would have been to either buy Windows, or not to use it all together and use a free OS instead. Worst of all, however, the shop you would have bought Windows from loses the small amount amount of money it would have gained had you bought it there. In effect, you are harming the economy on a small scale. You are also provided with an OS.
->You have something you haven't had before without paying for it. But the something is not free. You have not exactly stolen in the traditional, medieval sense, but you have harmed economy a tiny little bit.

How can you claim that piracy is not stealing? It is. A product you don't buy is a product that does not generate revenue.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Anyway, what's stealing?
When you take something AWAY from someone, you gain it, and he no longer has it.
That's stealing.
If you use Linux, or pirate Windows - M$ neither gains, nor loses anything either way.
So, next thing M$ will start to sue people using Linux for not buying Windows, huh?

When I buy software products, I do so to encorate making more and better similar software products.
And I do buy them. Just not everything I try worth encoraging.
Same with ebooks, etc.

I agree. If I TAKE NUDE PHOTO'S of a porn star who allows me to do so for free, or take photo's OF YOUR WIFE with a hidden camera without her knowledge - the porn star nor your wife either gains, nor loses anything either way. So next people will start to complain when I take photo's of them, huh?

When I photograph someone nude, I do so to encourage them and let them know how beautiful they are. And I do photograph them. Just not everything I photograph is worth encouraging.

Anyway, what's the problem taking hidden photo's of someone without their knowledge? I'm just some stupid Russian who doesn't understand these things because I was raised in a country where it's all okay. We're poor, dumb, down-trodden bastards you know!

Seriously, if you have to ask "what's stealing", you need mental help. It's all about violating rights. M$ spent money making Windows and has the right to sell it. Linux relied on a bunch of developers working for free and they exercised their right to give it away. Just because your wife lets me take nude photo's of her without having to pay her a cent because she's so desperate, doesn't mean I'm allowed to do it to everyone's wife without their permission.

 

[Elwro]

Scenario 2: You pirate Windows.
-> Microsoft loses the money that you haven't used to buy Windows.

What? Now that's absurd.

edit: of course, piracy is stealing, but claiming that Microsoft lost money when some guy pirated their OS is really weird.

 

[Jasede]

You misunderstood.
No, wait, I phrased it wrong - my fault.

MS doesn't LOSE money when one steals Windows, but they don't GAIN money from piracy, which they would have gained had the person committing the deed bought it.

Explanation: I was brought up with the strict maxim that money not gained is money lost.

 

[Elwro]

but they don't GAIN money from piracy, which they would have gained had the person committing the deed bought it.

OK, that's true of course. And now, to calculate the amount of money, we'd have to determine how many of the pirates would buy the product had they not pirated it. And of course you have to ask the standard questions: Did they pirate it because they needed it but had no money? Out of boredom? Because "everyone does that"? And you might also consider whether they'd buy the product if there was no piracy option available. The answer to this question would imo be drastically different when it comes to OS' than when it comes to music.

 

[Balor]

Seriously, if you have to ask "what's stealing", you need mental help. It's all about violating rights. M$ spent money making Windows and has the right to sell it. Linux relied on a bunch of developers working for free and they exercised their right to give it away. Just because your wife lets me take nude photo's of her without having to pay her a cent because she's so desperate, doesn't mean I'm allowed to do it to everyone's wife without their permission.

Yea, right. Breaking copyright equals 'stealing' now.
But were those laws passed upon as by a supreme, divine, perfect being?
Fuck, they were lobbied by companies like Microsoft that charge us money for 'air' and uses laws as a club we buy their products for 10x of it's actual price.
It's really muddy water here, so to speak.
I don't get guilty at all when I don't pay M$ their 'hard-earned' money when I use their products.
But, for instance, if I liked a book after reading it form an 'online library', I will guy and BUY it. I will not read it, I will just place it there on the shelf - but I know that by buying it, I help writer I liked to continue writing more good books.
Same with games and other software. Same with Music.
So, I feel quite comfortable stealing from M$. Especially since they lose no money from it anyway.
___
Btw, your 'naked photos' stuff was funny. I laughed. Too bad it's irrelevant in this discussion... well, if I used those pictures to gain money - that's completely different thing. I agree completely here. If I will ever use some software to may money - I will buy it. And see below.

And besides, I'd gladly (well, not gladly, but readily) pay on basis of 'a percentage of income' for a sertain period.
Seems fair - companies will pay thousands of bucks (they have to pay anyway), and I will gladly hang over my mothly fee 10 roubles (25 cents), he-he-he.

 

[psycojester]

And besides, I think paying for Oblivion is actally harmfuls. That's 'voting with your wallet' for dumbification of CRPGs.

What you need to do in that situation is buy your copy of oblivion, and then burn the store down

 

[Elwro]

Or just steal your money back. And leave the note "The money I stole was for Oblivion lol111"

 

[Blahblah Talks]

Yea, right. Breaking copyright equals 'stealing' now.

Yep. At least in America and most other countries. But I recently heard a story about a musician in the West Bank who wrote a song about Hezbollah. Apparently the Palestinian Authority has now IP laws, so his (popular) song is being rebroadcast/mixed/played at clubs etc. and he's not getting a cent.

But were those laws passed upon as by a supreme, divine, perfect being?

Were the laws against theft of physical property (e.g. land, my car) passed down from a Supreme Being? I suppose you could make a case that the laws against murder were passed down to Moses by Yahweh, but why should I, an agnostic, be beholden to them? I mean, you aren't seriously suggesting that only Divine Law should be used to regulate human behavior, are you? How are you going to get people to agree on which God to listen to?

Fuck, they were lobbied by companies like Microsoft that charge us money for 'air' and uses laws as a club we buy their products for 10x of it's actual price.

If M$ is overcharging people for OS's, there should be sufficient incentive for competitors to enter the market and beat their price.

Btw, your 'naked photos' stuff was funny. I laughed. Too bad it's irrelevant in this discussion... well, if I used those pictures to gain money - that's completely different thing. I agree completely here. If I will ever use some software to may money - I will buy it. And see below.

Your knowledge of IP and copyright law is negligible. If I steal someone's car, but don't use it to make money, I am still guilty of stealing. The same goes for books, music, films, and software. Just because you don't copy and resell it, or use it to create something (e.g. with Photoshop) and sell that thing, doesn't mean you are not guilty, as a point of law. In my opinion, you are also guilty as a point of ethics.

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

Only games I wouldn't actually pay full price for.

So stealing is OK if it's something you don't really like?

I'm hoping to single-handedly destroy the market for bad games.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

If I had a magic computer that could instantly generate images that look EXACTLY like anyone would if they were naked, would that be morally worse than taking an actual photo of them au naturale without their permission?

If someone never loses posession of something, it isn't stealing as far as I'm concerned.

 

[RK47]

Well you're supposed to pay for the usage of such things like OS, if you still don't understand why this is wrong, then I guess you need to walk in their shoes, or maybe program something to sell, only to have someone copy it and distribute it for free.

Or write a book.