So what's your new favorite TES game?

[Alex]

I'm still waiting for a response on what made Morrowind so great.

At the time it was really fucking pretty. That's pretty much it.

Well Jaesun, different people may see things differently, but what I like about Morrowind is actually the same that I like in Ultima 7. That is a very well detailed world where all the details come together in multiple levels. By multiple levels, I mean stuff like how in Ultima 7, Britannia is kind of self contained, with its own internal logic, and cove was also self contained, with its own internal logic. However, cove, Britannia and the other cities do come together to reveal the self contained logic of the world itself. This also happens across different aspects of the world, like geography (like how each city's "face" depends a lot of where it is, like New Magincia being isolated and backwards whereas Paws is plagued by the swamp nearby.

Likewise, Mose of the places, characters and lore of Morrowind join together to make a cohesive whole. The difference, however, lies in how the games choose to present the world, how you explore them. In Ultima 7, this is done a lot through interactions. You speak with quaint characters, each unique and with many lines, even if they are nothing more than a baker or a puppeteer. You play with some of the pieces of the world too, you even get to bake bread and forge a sword! And as you explore the hidden areas of the world, you are frequently presented with interesting and unique npcs, like the tax avoiding nudist couple. Even the monsters you face in each area have a distinct character or flavor.

Morrowind relies on more static tools. It has reams of lore distributed among various books. It has towns with buildings carefully placed to make sense within itself. The alchemical reagents you find wherever you go each has their own internal logic, like which flowers grow where or where on dead trunks you find certain varieties of mushrooms. The cities, guilds, shops, city divisions and what have you were all thought out. But you don't have these rubbed in your face. Instead, the game waits for you to explore it, to see that which is beneath the surface.

It is easy to dislike Morrowind, though, as it focuses too much on less interactive aspects to make the exploration. Whereas Ultima 7 is full of memorable NPCs, Morrowind is full of the cookie cutter variety. The horrible wiki dialog interface doesn't help any. The best npcs will usually only shine through specific quests, and the quests themselves are frequently outshined by what you can read in the books. Still, I gave Morrowind a try and I wasn't disappointed, even if I preferred Daggerfall. By the way, wouldn't it be awesome if a game managed to capture the best of Ultima 7 and Morrowind? Maybe with a few sprinkles of Daggerfall's philosophy of preferring systems to scripts when possible?

 

[hydd]

I'm still waiting for a response on what made Morrowind so great.

Note, I haven't played Arena or Daggerfall. So my response is to compare Oblivion & Skyrim.

• 
  Z Axis Exploration
  Underwater Exploration
  Open Ended Spell creation
  No quest tracker
  No Instant Fast Travel
  Extremely Diverse Backdrop
  Freedom to kill anyone you please (try killing any main quest npc in TES IV or V)

But, for me, the reason Morrowind is the best in the series is because it (as quoted from the RPG Codex logo) "doesn't scale to your level".

If you can find any lasting fun in a game where leveling up makes you weaker, I tip my hat to you.

 

[Vb]

Daggerfall, since I'm not a fan of Bethesda's scripted stuff. I struggle to contain my sense of disbelief when confronted with the frequent lapses in common sense in Bethesda's post-Daggerfall efforts .

The moment Bethesda shifted to non-random design, I couldn't help but scrutinize the quest design, writing, etc., and these came up woefully short. I think I might prefer the Gothics to Bethesda's post-Daggerfall games, though I did enjoy the emphasis Morrowind placed on the world-building lore.

 

[hakuroshi]

As for the favorite - it's Daggerfall, though I came to like Morrowind a lot after initial disappointment.

Daggerfall was an attempt in emulation of a living fantasy world (greatly flawed, alas, but partially successful). I was fascinated back then... Morrowind was different, very different. Its main strength lies in deep interesting setting and ability to explore it in various ways.

As for the best TES game? I don't know. They all actually pretty terrible as games apart from Arena, which was just mediocre. Still earlier TES 1-2 could be played, while later, MW included, could only be interacted with, sometimes quite enjoyably, but hardly played.

Skyrim is technically better (prettier to be sure), but for me it's an iteration of Morrowind and not a Daggerfall heir. I may like it eventually (my tastes are quite shallow), but right now it's nothing special.

 

[WalmartJesus]

I tried to play Morrowind but it was then that I realized I was really bored with bland generic fantasy rpg settings and quit playing.

I can understand why a person wouldnt like Morrowind when it comes to gameplay...but generic?

The game's lore and setting is anything but generic

 

[Wolfus]

All of them was fascinating for a first few hours. Then they started to be boring.

Arena and Daggerfall are quite repetitive.
Morrowind has terrible travelling.
Oblivion... well... is Oblivion
Skyrim is console port with hideous UI and tons of logic flaws.

When the hell will Bethesda learn something from past mistakes?

 

[DraQ]

I'm still waiting for a response on what made Morrowind so great.

At the time it was really fucking pretty. That's pretty much it.

Well, what Alex and hydd said.

It has interesting gameworld with excellent lore. It has excellent exploration, often using subtle breadcrumbs to let you find really rewarding locations if you bother to think and connect the dots. It has layers of stuff beneath the surface that isn't stated openly but noticeable when you dig deeper. It has fairly versatile spellmaking system allowing for interesting and powerful combinations of effects, it has a lot of utility magic, plus it has atmosphere and good art direction.

Weaksauce magic

I actually like MW magic the most in the entire series and possibly even all RPGs I've ever played.

Yes, if you try to spam fireballs it's weak, but mages are supposed to be intelligent and since when was spamming fireballs at anything that may appear an intelligent tactics?

Mages are flexible.
If you use spellmaker and know how to join effects for maximum oomph, you can become nearly omnipotent with disabling spells, resistance piercers, summons, invisibility and so on.
This is rewarding, because mages aren't loser friendly elemental artillery, they are crippled if you try to play them dumb, godlike if you play them in intelligent manner.

 

[tennishero]

i was fully expecting skyrim to be a worthlless PoS (kinda like call of duty MW3) and i had already written it off as only worth buying after the CS kit came out

i thought morrowind would be their best game

however-

i think bethesda has managed to create the prefect rpg

casuals get into it and hardcore are still rewarded

level scaling kinda ruined the dungeons in oblivion- in skyrim dungeons are always fun (too log but otherwise ok)

the music (as per all tes games) is exceptional- elder scrolls games to better music than any other game franchise (perhaps the Ys series is as good)

the writing is (suprisingly!) incredible- they actually decided to go with shades of grey instead of black and white- the additional books feel perfect- the lore feels perfect= the quests are al meaty and everything feels like it belongs- theres a gorgeous world that feels alive and lived in

which brings me to- the EXCELLENT touches of genius- creating your own weapins- wolf pelts actually serving a purpose- there are almost no worthless stats-

idiots moaned about the fat being cut off from daggerfall when they removed useless stats and traits- skyrim gets it just right
its still an incredibly deep and rewarding system- but super easy to get into- the constellation tree idea- probably a genre defining idea

fractions are fun- well written- (very) well acted- some genuine suprises- wearwolves in my companion guild?

basically the writing is top notch- not,,,,, planescape torement level- but then again- everything else in planescape sucks balls so skyrim sh!ts all over planescape imo

special mention has to go to the art drection- bethesda art direction have been the best in the world for over a decade now- some felt like....maybe they slipped a little with oblivion with the whole- generic roman look (personally i would point out thelucien lanchance and the whole dark brotherhood quest line for artistic genius)

well anyways- skyrim art design is the best ive seen this decade- best ever in a video game- and maybe wont ever be beaten- (fallout 3 was close)

the game is a 10/10 GOTY- best rpg- deserves every accolade- and i cant even imagine how many amazing extras the mod scene will bring- geniuinely excited for the first time in a long time

nitpicks?

battles are better than oblivion- lightyears ahead of morrowind- but still not good enough- they really stand out especially compared to everything else

the animations are 10 years out of date at ths point- beth dont do good animations- and i think its time to buy out a omcpany thats good at the stuff and let them take over

the game engine is amazing- maybe the best game engine out there when you consider how optimsed it is

i never though todd howard was amongst the eite game designers- but after skyrim i think hes ahead of miyamoto and on par with (the late great) black isle- maybe even better

bravo skyrim

 

[tennishero]

brilliant art design

one thing bethesda has always done better than anyone is else is tell great stories without saying a word-

letting your own imagination filll in the gaps-

great art design can make a shit game look amazing- ico for example- a piece of crap that had good art design

skyrim has exceptional art design over an already amazing game- it is a sensory overload

its funny that skyway sword and skyrim came out at the same time- everyone expected zelda to be the better game- and the much better dungen explorer-

in every single way skyrim has blown skyway sword out of the water- even if you put zelda's strengths against skyrim- skyrim blows it away- you can waste hours in a skyrim dungeon and not care- its beautiful dark- you can almost smell the scent of corpes and death and disease....

zelda looks shit in comaprison

and the funny thing is skyway sword isnt even a bad game- its a great game- it just isnt even worth to stand next to skyrim

 

[torpid]

sup drog

i'll admit the comparison to zelda was so outta left field that it made me lol

 

[Grunker]

1/5 for effort

 

[Jaesun]

obvious spam shitposter is obvious.

 

[Nattvardsvin]

Nigga plz, I hate every TES game.

First time playing Morrowind, there was enough interactivity in Seyda Neen with the Fargoth fucker and the atmosphere to make it interesting enough.
But looks can be deceiving. Then you quickly find out the rest of the fucking game is so god damn bland and every NPC says the same fucking thing and the whole game is just so fucking stupid

 

[Crooked Bee]

tennishero's back!

 

[King Crispy]

Daggerfall, bitches. Game is epic huge and you can spend two days in a dungeon and not finish it (granted, this wasn't always a plus). It's probably nostalgia talking but I spent so much time on that game when it came out. Lot's of nice little touches too, didn't gold even have weight and you could trade it in for bank notes?

Agreed with Bruticus. Daggerfall's sheer size lent much to its freeform scope, enabling the character to play in the sandbox with a greatly reduced feeling of claustrophobia and much less urgent sense of "you'd better get onto your main quest now, bub."

Once you realized what kind of vast world you were walking around in, building up your character through almost random and aimless sidequesting became a priority, and was half the game's fun. Level scaling was an unknown thing back then, actually being handled way behind the scenes, so the player is introduced to an obligation to build up his power before progressing, lest he find himself hopelessly stuck at the bottom of some crazy dungeon with no way out. This happened to me several times, and it was not pretty.

The choices of classes, the much larger selection of skills, weapons, armors, spells, the ability to create any spell you choose, the ability to craft any weapon you could imagine -- that is what freedom in an RPG is all about and that is what originally made TES great.

I do like Skyrim, it has its moments, but none are as grand as some of those experienced in the granddaddy of all sandbox RPG's: the great TES II: Daggerfall.

 

[Sceptic]

This is why, no matter how much you derp sometimes, you're still considered a BRO Crispy

I do feel a bit bad for voting DF though. Battlespire deserves more love than a single vote that could be to Redguard. If DF was the ultimate sandbox RPG, Battlespire was one hell of a dungeon crawl.

 

[Crooked Bee]

I do feel a bit bad for voting DF though. Battlespire deserves more love than a single vote that could be to Redguard.

That's my vote, and yes, it was for Battlespire. But of course!

 

[Wyrmlord]

Daggerfall, bitches. Game is epic huge and you can spend two days in a dungeon and not finish it (granted, this wasn't always a plus). It's probably nostalgia talking but I spent so much time on that game when it came out. Lot's of nice little touches too, didn't gold even have weight and you could trade it in for bank notes?

Agreed with Bruticus. Daggerfall's sheer size lent much to its freeform scope, enabling the character to play in the sandbox with a greatly reduced feeling of claustrophobia and much less urgent sense of "you'd better get onto your main quest now, bub."

Once you realized what kind of vast world you were walking around in, building up your character through almost random and aimless sidequesting became a priority, and was half the game's fun. Level scaling was an unknown thing back then, actually being handled way behind the scenes, so the player is introduced to an obligation to build up his power before progressing, lest he find himself hopelessly stuck at the bottom of some crazy dungeon with no way out. This happened to me several times, and it was not pretty.

The choices of classes, the much larger selection of skills, weapons, armors, spells, the ability to create any spell you choose, the ability to craft any weapon you could imagine -- that is what freedom in an RPG is all about and that is what originally made TES great.

I do like Skyrim, it has its moments, but none are as grand as some of those experienced in the granddaddy of all sandbox RPG's: the great TES II: Daggerfall.

See, someone else who enjoys both recent Elder Scrolls games as well as the old ones. I no longer feel like I am part of the crazy few.

 

[Evilhyde]

Other than these comparatively minor things, it does everything else worse.

I also agree that dual wield isn't that minor. It makes playing a hybrid class like Nightblade or Spellsword much better. Probably one of the primary reasons I'm enjoying the combat.

the guilds are shit,

So was Morrowind, at least quest wise. All the same linear boring fetch this from dungeon shit. Pretty much every TES game.

the dungeons feel formulaic,

Morrowind dungeons didn't?

gameplay is dumbed down, etc.

Stat removal is easy to mock, but honestly Morrowind's system was still crap. Overall I'm enjoying the perk additions more.

And how can you not mention that combat is better in Skyrim? The trying to have skill based combat moves (auto block, missing what you hit) in an action rpg sucked ass in Morrowind. The combat is better, perks give it some interest, dual wield is a nice feature.

TES quests and guilds have always been boring linear garbage. I enjoyed Morrowind for the hiking sim action rpg, and never finished the game. Honestly that 'sandbox' feature is the only thing TES games have going for them, and I think Skyrim does it all better: combat is more enjoyable, I enjoy leveling up and picking perks over stat multipliers, and the gameworld may be more generic but it's still nice and beautiful and very open.

I wish loot wasn't as random and there was less level-scaling, but otherwise still liking it better, or at least the same. And if it's the same with better graphics (one of the few reasons to play TES 3+ games) , then I'm obviously picking Skyrim.

Still, in the end I probably won't even finish Skyrim just like I didn't finish Morrowind.

 

[Sceptic]

That's my vote, and yes, it was for Battlespire. But of course!

You're one of my 3 favorite female posters Bee

See, someone else who enjoys both recent Elder Scrolls games as well as the old ones. I no longer feel like I am part of the crazy few.

Wait Crispy likes Oblivion? I may have to revise my earlier comment

 

[DraQ]

Other than these comparatively minor things, it does everything else worse.

I also agree that dual wield isn't that minor. It makes playing a hybrid class like Nightblade or Spellsword much better. Probably one of the primary reasons I'm enjoying the combat.

Ok, how exactly does dual wielding make playing hybrid caster easier than separate cast button that was in derpblivion (and has since been modded into Morrowind)?

gameplay is dumbed down, etc.

Stat removal is easy to mock, but honestly Morrowind's system was still crap. Overall I'm enjoying the perk additions more.

I hope you'll never meet a doctor with bethesda's approach to his trade:

Evilhyde: "Help! I think my arm is broken!"
Dr. Todd: "Broken? No probelm! Me fix good!" *pulls out a cleaver*

Besides, spellmaker + attributes = drain/damage attribute spells.

Anyway, addition of perks doesn't follow from removal of attributes, those are not tied in any way.

And how can you not mention that combat is better in Skyrim? The trying to have skill based combat moves (auto block, missing what you hit) in an action rpg sucked ass in Morrowind.

Except that Morrowind wasn't an aRPG. It was an FPP RPG and an RPG with RT combat and only that.

Sure, combat could have been realized better, but having stats as limiting factor in RPG is the right way to do it.
Still, combat in Skyrim does seem a massive improvement over Grand Clusterfuck Oblivion, even though actual improvements are rather subtle.

 

[Evilhyde]

Anyway, addition of perks doesn't follow from removal of attributes, those are not tied in any way.

Of course, those are not both ways to progress your character's abilities. No relation at all.

It was an FPP RPG and an RPG with RT combat and only that.

Which is shit.

but having stats as limiting factor in RPG is the right way to do it.

Turn-based is the right way to do it also. Do rpg right or make it arpg.

 

[DraQ]

Anyway, addition of perks doesn't follow from removal of attributes, those are not tied in any way.

Of course, those are not both ways to progress your character's abilities. No relation at all.

So I guess skills and attributes (or skills and perks) are mutually exclusive as well?




Moron.

It was an FPP RPG and an RPG with RT combat and only that.

Which is shit.

but having stats as limiting factor in RPG is the right way to do it.

Turn-based is the right way to do it also. Do rpg right or make it arpg.

FPP is the best perspective you can have for exploration and what's the point of turd-based if you only control one character?

 

[baronjohn]

I also agree that dual wield isn't that minor. It makes playing a hybrid class like Nightblade or Spellsword much better. Probably one of the primary reasons I'm enjoying the combat.

How does it make the combat more enjoyable? Honest question, since I've only played a caster.

So was Morrowind, at least quest wise. All the same linear boring fetch this from dungeon shit. Pretty much every TES game.

The guilds in Skyrim are shit because they were written by someone with the mind of a hyper-excited 8 year old. Morrowind's guilds might not have been EXTREME and EPIC, but at least they had some subtlety.

Morrowind dungeons didn't?

No? Morrowind had circular and branching dungeons with fairly logical and varied layouts that often required diving and levitation. Skyrim has really, really long corridors with a boss at the end and a quick exit to the surface.

Stat removal is easy to mock, but honestly Morrowind's system was still crap. Overall I'm enjoying the perk additions more.

Yes of course it's easy to mock because it was a dumbfuck move.

And how can you not mention that combat is better in Skyrim? The trying to have skill based combat moves (auto block, missing what you hit) in an action rpg sucked ass in Morrowind. The combat is better, perks give it some interest, dual wield is a nice feature.

Not for casters. Magicka regen makes casters just another tactless damage dealers. There's no more thought involved in what you're going to cast because it regens in a couple of seconds. Add the impact perk that stuns enemies and fewer spell effects, the game is complete shit compared to Morrowind's magic.

TES quests and guilds have always been boring linear garbage. I enjoyed Morrowind for the hiking sim action rpg, and never finished the game.

No. In Morrowind you had several quest givers per guild and you could pick your missions. In Skyrim they are linear garbage.

the gameworld may be more generic but it's still nice and beautiful and very open.

You are a moron if you like Skyrim's world better than Morrowind. This isn't a matter of opinion or taste, it's objective fact.

I wish loot wasn't as random and there was less level-scaling

So, you wish it were like Morrowind?

Still, in the end I probably won't even finish Skyrim just like I didn't finish Morrowind.

Of course. You hate video games. You wish they movies instead. Skyrim is still too much of a game for you.

 

[Phelot]

Voted Morrowind. I enjoyed Daggerfall and I still play both from time to time, but I spent way more time in Morrowind. There's probably still places I haven't explored yet which is pretty cool to think about.

Skyrim is pretty fun for what it is. I know I know, that phrase, but it's true. If you go into it with low expectations and realize that you aren't ever going to get another Daggerfall then you can make the best of it.