Glittering Gems of Hatred - part 3

[Commissioner]

No..try again you dumbfuck! Rosh wasnt even around when it happened he already quit long before then.!

Then you must have acted like a real fuck-tard to manage to get yourself banned, compared to Rosh the other admin’s were lenient when it came to a posters display of blind idiocy.

Also if you did any research or was even around when Rosh was still posting there you would have noticed that instead of just cowardly banning people with a different opinion and even erasing thier post without warning.

I can't believe for a second that you were banned without warning, or that you were banned because of your "ub3r kewl arguing skillz LOL!". Based on this performance you were most likely banned for your complete ineptitude.

Rosh would always debate back and fourth giving people atleast a fair fight to justify thier opinions unlike some other liberal douchebags over thier .Let me guess your another puppet who was sent here to defend the douchebags?

It was more for comedy value than actually giving them a chance to justify themselves. If they came onto NMA and posted some completely retarded bullshit then they'd be kept around just long enough to be completely humiliated, and then bye bye.

 

[Helton]

Edit: To give an example- In Morrowind you could learn enough about the missing Dunmer (or whatever they were called... the dwarves) through reading the lore and talking to people to take it as your goal to investigate. No one gave you this quest but it was clearly included. These arbitrary "off the books" quests require a level of game world complexity rarely seen in rpgs today and virtually absent in dialogue driven games. Its all about subtlety. Oblivion had none of this as far as I can see.

That was a Mage's Guild quest, actually:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Mystery_of_the_Dwarves

Though, to compliment your point, there really aren't any instructions given in game. You aren't even pointed in a direction.

edit: barely anyways.

 

[Sander]

No..try again you dumbfuck! Rosh wasnt even around when it happened he already quit long before then.!
Also if you did any research or was even around when Rosh was still posting there you would have noticed that instead of just cowardly banning people with a different opinion and even erasing thier post without warning. Rosh would always debate back and fourth giving people atleast a fair fight to justify thier opinions unlike some other liberal douchebags over thier .Let me guess your another puppet who was sent here to defend the douchebags?

Nice try though! :wink: NOW GTFO!:twisted:

Yeah, cause we really delete comments.

<a href="http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34748">Oh no wait, we don't.</a>

I can't believe you still don't know about The Vats, considering almost all of your posts ended up there.

 

[Gnidrologist]

It's really funny how ratata is sucking up to Rosh considering he's the very prototype of iliterate dumbfucks who were usually banned without giving mutch room to demonstrate their um.. arguing skills.
It seems he don't even read or comprehend what all the fuss is about, he's just excited that bad people who banned him are now verbally offended by good uncle Rosh.

In Morrowind you could learn enough about the missing Dunmer (or whatever they were called... the dwarves) through reading the lore and talking to people to take it as your goal to investigate. No one gave you this quest but it was clearly included. These arbitrary "off the books" quests require a level of game world complexity rarely seen in rpgs today and virtually absent in dialogue driven games.

Do you consider learning the lore a part of the gameplay? And what does protagonist accomplish by learning about that lost dwarven civilization?

 

[Rosh]

What I'm looking for is something I could write an entire game in text form, that has flow charts and has a way to set and auto check quest flags (it would point out my errors). So I figure it would need a simple programming language, as well as a flow chart and a text input capability.

Is that what you use Synthis Process Modeler for Rosh?

Not really. We just bastardize it for the flow charts, throw in logic identifiers, and then use them as a guideline for both scripting and routines. You might be able to set it up to operate how you describe.

Now for a scripting engine specifically for designing games with those capabilities, such would be pretty handy. Currently I'm writing out a really basic scripting language for speech trees as well as a generator, both of which I'm releasing open source.

I hope Bethesda doesn't steal it!

 

[Joe Krow]

Do you consider learning the lore a part of the gameplay? And what does protagonist accomplish by learning about that lost dwarven civilization?

Not a neccessary part, no. You could play the game without it. The use of "off the book questing," however, usually requires a pretty healthy dose of lore. The idea that you don't have to be instructed to do something, have it marked in your journal & map, and then return for a reward, will definatly require alternative sources of information and motivation. It's a real and intentional part of the design and has nothing to do with gardening (although it could).

I never said Morrowind was a good example of this, just that it was better then Oblivion (which isn't saying much really). Morrowind at least tried to create a world with some degree of sophistication. Mysterious plagues, Dunmar and Deadra ruins, rival gods, warring factions, etc... they at least tried to create a complex envioronment rather then a strict narrative. Still though Morrowind was a shadow of what this style has to offer. The best example, as i've said, is Ultima 4.

As far as the consequences of this kind of gameplay are concerned, I guess it depends what you're expecting. You don't get the nifty journal "job well done." You don't get an XP bonus when you return to the quest dispensor. You get the satisfaction of having unraveled a carefully developed mystery. One that is not obvious and required more thought then mere dialgoue selection.

It's not the easiest thing to pin down. Unfortunately, it's easiest to identify in its abscence. That was why I compared Oblivion to Morrowind.

 

[Mr. Teatime]

You know what I want to know? I want to know how Saint came back from the dead. I bet it was like Curb Your Enthusiasm, where God got so annoyed at arguing with him he sent him back down to earth.

Oh, and Fallout 3, and stuff.

 

[Davaris]

Now for a scripting engine specifically for designing games with those capabilities, such would be pretty handy.

Yes it would sure cut down the testing.

If someone could make something that could work with any engine and could spit out scripts that were ready to compile, I'm sure it would be worth something to any games company. The capability I'd want most is where you could adjust a quest/plot variable and it would give you a visual display of possible paths through the dialogue trees and game tree.

I hope Bethesda doesn't steal it!

Now that would be ironic. :D

 

[Gnidrologist]

As far as the consequences of this kind of gameplay are concerned, I guess it depends what you're expecting. You don't get the nifty journal "job well done." You don't get an XP bonus when you return to the quest dispensor. You get the satisfaction of having unraveled a carefully developed mystery. One that is not obvious and required more thought then mere dialgoue selection.

I understand what you mean and will not criticize you preferences in gameplay, yet, what you describe as a good role playing for your liking I find awfully similar to the 'virtual larping' seen discussed on TES boards, which was oftenly used as an excuse to the lack of interactive gameplay content in Morrowind and Oblivion. Like, you can go where you want, agther herbs, read books, explore dungeons and do it in any pace and order you want.
Ok, it's fine if you like that kind of gameplay, but as you pointed out yourself, it lacks any consequences in the gameworld. And I really don't mean only trivial xp reward or new entry in quest log. There are really lots of possibilities on how to have meaningfull consequences beyoud that as shown in umm... Fallout for example. Which is dialogue driven coincidentally.

I never said Morrowind was a good example of this, just that it was better then Oblivion (which isn't saying much really). Morrowind at least tried to create a world with some degree of sophistication. Mysterious plagues, Dunmar and Deadra ruins, rival gods, warring factions, etc... they at least tried to create a complex envioronment rather then a strict narrative. Still though Morrowind was a shadow of what this style has to offer. The best example, as i've said, is Ultima 4.

Got to play those Ultimas already. I've never got to play any game in the series so it's hard to judge the sandbox qualities and consequences on gameworld compared to Morrowind. Still, while I completely agree about the more complex gameworld with ritcher backgrounds and more diversification compared to dumbed down version of it in Oblivion, I can't remeber any redeemeing qualities in Morrowind in terms of meaningfull roleplaying.

Of course, if your own gratification after exploring some myserious aspects of ancient lore counts as sastisfactory consequence for you, then good for you, but I fail to see it as consequence gameplay wise, it's rather an aftereffect on your real life persona.

 

[Joe Krow]

I understand what your saying. I am not a fan of the "roleplaying" as described on ESF. As my sig used to say (before I was banned there) "Sure, the player can limit his actions and imagine consequences where there are none but that wouldnt be roleplaying in the game, that would be roleplaying despite the game." The kind of gameplay i'm trying to describe does not involve the player imagining anything not ioncluded in the game.

Imagine an rpg where the lore you learn from books or individuals helped you formulate your own "quests." You would hear rumors of an item for example, maybe find an old book about it, maybe find the person who wrote that book, and over time you would assemble enough information to: 1) determine it probably does exist 2) believe you may be able to find it. It wasn't just items handled this way; it could be a new allie, the truth about your enemy, or an entire town. It was the genious of the design that the player felt they had truely discovered something rather then just trudging to the next plot point.

One thing's certain, you owe it to yourself to find a copy. If you're not too hung up on hte graphix your in for quite a ride.

 

[Rosh]

You know what I want to know? I want to know how Saint came back from the dead. I bet it was like Curb Your Enthusiasm, where God got so annoyed at arguing with him he sent him back down to earth.

/ego on

Rosh is just that powerful.

Yes it would sure cut down the testing.

If someone could make something that could work with any engine and could spit out scripts that were ready to compile, I'm sure it would be worth something to any games company. The capability I'd want most is where you could adjust a quest/plot variable and it would give you a visual display of possible paths through the dialogue trees and game tree.

Here's a thought. Task time for the Codex folks and anyone else who might be listening. Everyone has their own idea about how to design a CRPG, but theres one common factor all CRPGs require - tools! Stuff like NWN's just won't do it. The above, put into a generic scripting language, would be of definite use to the indie development community.

 

[Silencer]

Liar, Tom got the message and replied, and he wasn't using his regular e-mail because he was off on a fishing vacation in MS at the time and couldn't log into his normal ISP mail.

Not unless he's now going by the alias of Tom Biga, Tom Holmes, Tom Jones, Tom Tracy, Tom Vega, Tom Wanker, or any other Dick and Harry that'd made it into my spambox (which I archive just in case I need to look up some stray e-mail after 3 months) McGowan? Sorry, doesn't ring a bell.

I assume he also resent the mail asking for explanation given no response? From his corporate JesusAnswers.com mailbox he was unable to reach via satellite from the fishing boat? Or was that his lil' brother's addy? :D

 

[Rosh]

Not unless he's now going by the alias of Tom Biga, Tom Holmes, Tom Jones, Tom Tracy, Tom Vega, Tom Wanker, or any other Dick and Harry that'd made it into my spambox (which I archive just in case I need to look up some stray e-mail after 3 months) McGowan? Sorry, doesn't ring a bell.

You might have missed it, just like my reply to your excuses and demands you were giving for a time until I told you to get off of your lazy asses then. And now you're whining that Bethesda isn't going to NMA and talking to you, when you have never bothered to try yourselves? Fucking comical.

He also goes by TCMcG, or TSMcG (as per his real name, though he doesn't say what the S is. I'm guessing Seymour or something likewise amusingly bad.), which was funny as hell to see posted with his full rank.

CMSgt. TSMcG

Yeah, a little uniform humor, but it was funny as hell for the office peons to keep fucking up. I even fucked it up a moment there, too.

I assume he also resent the mail asking for explanation given no response?

We assumed you were just being a pissy bitch like welsh and didn't want to reply to e-mail. We weren't going to lose any sleep or time writing a three part article whining about why nobody was talking to us.

From his corporate JesusAnswers.com mailbox he was unable to reach via satellite from the fishing boat?

Amusing, but it was noted that the address was chosen for a reason in one of the e-mails you replied to, and it was also pointed out why they didn't directly connect to the site. There's no way I'd trust anyone at NMA right now with knowing my own network. Not that you lazy, ignorant, whining little pussies could do anything but pingspam it.

 

[Silencer]

which I archive just in case I need to look up some stray e-mail after 3 months) McGowan? Sorry, doesn't ring a bell.

You might have missed it,

I assume it will be a waste of my breath to point out that I have checked, you know, just in case you might actually be telling the truth?

 

[Rosh]

I assume it will be a waste of my breath to point out that I have checked, you know, just in case you might actually be telling the truth?

I assume it would be a waste of text to tell you that at this point I don't fucking care.

Really, you expect me to believe that you're competent enough reading your e-mail, when you can't seem to be able to send it?

Oh, wait, I guess I am the asshole for expecting a newsie and a webmaster of a fucking fansite to try and contact the developers on their own. Then you get scooped by someone from a more general RPG news site on the same forums you're too lazy to check while posting mindless shit in TO, and then expect for me to personally clue you in about material the other half of the admin staff knows about - yet is bitching to drown it out?

I also tried to constantly clue people in, usually publicly when they'd play their little game of denial and the repetition of the Mantra. None of that worked. You wanted me to in essence do all the work (except for repost DAC news), and give it to you or be silent.

I have more important things to do than hold your hand and run what remains of Miroslav's site for you, and basically do the job that Miroslav expected of Odin, myself, and Xotor all at once. When none of you can bother to do the least bit of effort for the site but get into an envy whining contest on the admin forums about the occasional scoop of DAC. It was more like "Yay, we don't have to admit that we're just reposting news" each time I read that drivel.

Now go back and write another article whining about how Bethesda isn't talking to you, it might get your rocks off and increase more visitors to watch the pity parade of lazy shits. Once people figure out that you haven't bothered to try talking to Bethesda in the first place, then they generally don't give a shit about your whining that Bethesda isn't talking to you.

To put it simply, and in deference to you: If you wanted Bethesda to talk to you, you might have wanted to try opening dialog with them in the first place, MORON!

 

[Rohit_N]

Damn it, Rosh! First you made me realize what shit Oblivion is back when you posted at NMA, and now I feel stupid to have registered there in the first place! How do you do it!?

 

[ratata]

Damn it, Rosh! First you made me realize what shit Oblivion is back when you posted at NMA, and now I feel stupid to have registered there in the first place! How do you do it!?

 

[Rohit_N]

I just made myself look like a bitch, didn't I?

 

[ratata]

Naw homie, aint no bitches from da H TOWN! :wink:

 

[aries202]

Rosh (and others)

Do you relly think that Bethesda Softworks really would care what DaC and NMA had to say about how Bethsoft should make Fallout 3.

I'm on the TES forums as well, and it doesn't seem to me that (any of) the developers at TES forums listen to their fanbase.

In fact, to me it seems that Bethsoft & Zenimax Media would rather have the fanbase changed from a somewhat mature fanbase to a somewhat younger fanbase, meaning the 13-19 year old
console action crowd. (or perhaps more precisely: what Bethsoft and other game developer's image of how this particular age group is like).

The fact is that Bethsoft will make the game it will make, independently of what the people (or fans)
at DaC and NMA is saying.

 

[Ladonna]

aries, theres a reason this place, and others, are blacklisted. Why they ban anyone that so much as farts too near any of their products. They care. Not enough, but they do.

I bet there are checking this place every now and again too.

 

[Excrément]

funny thread (even if I stop at page 3..., tell me if there is somehting interesting after).

it looks like fallout fan community is as the french extremists leftist trotskyst communist : The less you are, the more divided you are. we have actually 6 presidential candidate sharing a 6% leftist population righ now in France (PCF, LCR, LO, les "Unitaires", Parti des Travailleurs, les Verts)!
we could say for all this enormous acrimony that rpgcodex nma dac emphasise... that your motto is "Divided we stand, together we fall"....

after dumbfuck people I propose that everyone here autolabel himself as "Trotskyst Dick".

 

[dagorkan]

Except that 98% of people talking about this issue are not doing anything anyway. Kharn and his posse and the hundreds of NMA members who worship him are irrelevant to everyone except themselves.

Saying "I'm the biggest FO fan evar :D" / "I hope / want Fallout 3 to be good " / "HEY BETHESDA DUDES, U BETTA MAKE FO3 REAL GOOD!! ELSE IMA CUM 2 MARYLAND & FUCK U UP!! U GOT DAT? :evil:" doesn't mean a thing if there's no action to go with it. It's just posturing crap, any child can scream and stamp his feet. And that's 98% of the 'Fallout community'.

So the 2% who actually matter are Rosh, Vault Dweller and others who are in contact with developers who are all on the same side. So there is no division.

As for DAC, they act and talk mentally handicapped kids but at least they can make good propaganda, the Fallout3.org website, photoshopped images, fake videos etc. They're deliberately immature but not autistic.

 

[Bradylama]

Except that 98% of people talking about this issue are not doing anything anyway. Kharn and his posse and the hundreds of NMA members who worship him are irrelevant to everyone except themselves.

We worship Kharn? Rosh was NMA's last superhero.

 

[Excrément]

Except that 98% of people talking about this issue are not doing anything anyway. Kharn and his posse and the hundreds of NMA members who worship him are irrelevant to everyone except themselves.

We worship Kharn? Rosh was NMA's last superhero.

that's the miracle of the Internet, every anonym geek can become a superhero.