Decline If I never played Thief before will I enjoy them today?

[jebsmoker]

thief 1 has some weird issues because the devs didn't know what the game wanted to be at first, so the levels have somewhat uneven quality - but it's still unmatched in certain regards. it does a great job in immersing you in this world that's alien and distant, and yet it feels like its tangible, and its sense of storytelling is unmatched. it gradually introduced you to the world of thief in a way that respects that less is more by just thrusting you straight into it instead of just doing awful loredumps that don't add much

thief 2 benefits from a tighter focus. looking glass knew what kind of game it was going to be, but it's also obvious in later levels that the devs were in some kind of hellish crunch mode, hindering quality as a result. still, regardless, thief 1 and 2 has some of the most satisfying stealth gameplay i've experienced in a game, and some of most incredible sound design i've heard in a game

and karras, good lord, karras. i won't spoil anything about him, but you could dedicate an entire character study essay just to him alone

 

[baba is you]

Hmmm. I think the level design is better in Thief 1 than it is in Thief 2. Thief 2 has more levels, more areas to explore, but in Thief 1, there's a sort of... I guess I should say it felt like a puzzle being solved.

 

[Lemming42]

Thief 1 is the better game by quite some distance IMO. Some of the less stealthy, more adventure-y levels can drag at times but ultimately the game gives you an incredible experience of being a skilled rogue on an amazing adventure. Plus Bafford's Manor and Cragscleft Prison go together to form one of the best introductions to a game ever. Thief Gold ruins the flow a bit, I think Song of the Caverns is the only really good addition there.

The thing that still irks me about these games is the blackjack, which I think I've been in some knock-down drag-out arguments on this forum before. Tap a guard on the head - which you can do from the front if you're stood in a shadow - and they're gone, forever. Can't be awakened by their friends, never wake up, nobody notices they're gone, no penalty. Makes almost no noise, too. You'll master the blackjack by about halfway through Bafford's mansion and then you're on easy street for the entire game. It renders the whole experience totally trivial. Bonus for when you get the flash bombs, which allow you to knock out a theoretically-infinite number of people who have already detected you, by just twatting them over the head while they play the six-hour-long dazed animation.

Oh, and I don't know if anyone mentioned this to OP yet, but play on Expert - it actually adds content to most levels, usually by making you exfiltrate (which introduces whole new segments in maps like Assassins).

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Few games excel at exploration like the Thief series.

The level design is very good, and the sound design is also very good for a game of its time. It's one of those games that was ahead of its time.

If the Thief games had been ahead of their time, they wouldn't have had the brilliant level design that elevates them to being among the greatest computer games of all time.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

is the GoG or Steam versions better?

First of all, I envy your Thief virginity.

The GOG version basically is vanilla+NewDark out of the box. In other words, the intended way to play it for first-timers. And Chad purists.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

They're not "ahead of their time" in that way, Zed.

Let me put it this way: Thief 1 turns 25 years old later this year. In all those years the only game to challenge it for the top spot of "Best stealth game ever" is Thief 2, its sequel.

I'll admit that I haven't taken a look at The Dark Mod (yet), but its been in development for ~15 years now. I'm amazed it's still going strong.

 

[baba is you]

Few games excel at exploration like the Thief series.

The level design is very good, and the sound design is also very good for a game of its time. It's one of those games that was ahead of its time.

If the Thief games had been ahead of their time, they wouldn't have had the brilliant level design that elevates them to being among the greatest computer games of all time.

Now that I think about it, that's true.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I think this notion of a game being "ahead of its time" is fallacious, as is progressivism as a whole.

Even to the degree a particular creation seems to anticipate a specific development the creation in question is either great on its own terms or else it being "ahead of its time" doesn't mean anything. Beethoven was ahead of his time, something that was recognized even when he was alive. Both Bach and Brahms by contrast were behind their time and were considered old fashioned, even regressive in the case of Brahms. None of this has anything to do with whether their music was great or not.

If Thief is only great because it was "ahead of its time" there would be no point playing it today, much like there would be no point to listen to Beethoven instead of the Romantics that came after him, given that it was their time he was anticipating. In fact, nothing would have any value anymore once their "time" was expired. Whatever is contemporary, would be best by default.

 

[baba is you]

I think this notion of a game being "ahead of its time" is fallacious, as is progressivism as a whole.

Even to the degree a particular creation seems to anticipate a specific development the creation in question is either great on its own terms or else it being "ahead of its time" doesn't mean anything. Beethoven was ahead of his time, something that was recognized even when he was alive. Both Bach and Brahms by contrast were behind their time and were considered old fashioned, even regressive in the case of Brahms. None of this has anything to do with whether their music was great or not.

If Thief is only great because it was "ahead of its time" there would be no point playing it today, much like there would be no point to listen to Beethoven instead of the Romantics that came after him, given that it was their time he was anticipating. In fact, nothing would have any value anymore once their "time" was expired. Whatever is contemporary, would be best by default.

Interesting and good point.

In the forums I'm mostly active in (the ones in my country), classic games are often described as timeless when recommending them.
I'll have to read your comments and think about a different way to recommend games in the future.

 

[Dave the Druid]

Yes. Why is this even a thread?

 

[V17]

I'll admit that I haven't taken a look at The Dark Mod (yet), but its been in development for ~15 years now. I'm amazed it's still going strong.

The Dark Mod is not better than Thief 1 or 2 and never will be because it's a community project, and while the effort to preserve lore and overall coherency in different missions has been surprisingly successful, they're still individual missions made by different people with no campaign or overarching story, varying in both quality of ideas and technological quality. The lore can also never really be better because it started out as "let's make a thief-like world without infringing on anything".

That said, it's surely one of the best open-source games out there and the quality is generally outstanding. I've spent probably at least 50 hours playing it and even though the quality varies, its average is very high. Definitely worth playing, the only people I've seen disappointed by it were people fixated on specific Thief mechanics who were unhappy that the engine simply feels different.


I'll add to the recommendation for Thief 3. It's was a big disappointment in that it doesn't improve on T1 and T2 and it's a sidestep at best, but it's still a good game imo - after applying the community patch that removes in-level loadings of course. I love how it looks, plus I enjoyed the hub levels and thought some of the level design was pretty memorable - namely Shalebridge Cradle and the Pagan environments.

 

[JarlFrank]

Thief 1 in particular has some awkward control mechanisms;

Which can be completely bypassed by copypasting your Thief 2 settings file into your Thief 1 folder, then it will control exactly like Thief 2!

 

[NecroLord]

Hmmm. I think the level design is better in Thief 1 than it is in Thief 2. Thief 2 has more levels, more areas to explore, but in Thief 1, there's a sort of... I guess I should say it felt like a puzzle being solved.

I like the dark fantasy atmosphere of the first game better than the steampunk one in Thief 2.
Even so, I do not draw many comparisons between them. They are both giants, games that are at the very top of video game history.

 

[JarlFrank]

They are the same game. Thief 2 is more of an expansion of the first game than a new standalone game. They stand together, inseparable.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Yes. Why is this even a thread?

Ceci n'est pas une thread codexe.

 

[Tweed]

No, sorry, that ship has sailed. If you weren't there when it was new then you have no hope. The same applies to all games, the concept of a backlog is just a lie people tell themselves so they can sleep at night.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Complete and total bullshit plenty of games i got into obsessively WAY past their era.

 

[NecroLord]

No, sorry, that ship has sailed. If you weren't there when it was new then you have no hope. The same applies to all games, the concept of a backlog is just a lie people tell themselves so they can sleep at night.

No such thing.
If anything, the complete decline in game quality might push people towards older titles.

 

[Gargaune]

Gentlemen, I believe Tweed was being ironic.

 

[kangaxx]

If I never played Thief before will I enjoy them today? I don't even know how someone would answer that.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

The Essence Of Balance Is Detachment. To Embrace A Cause, To Grow Fond Or Spiteful, Is To Lose One's Balance, After Which, No Action Can Be Trusted. Our Burden Is Not For The Dependent Of Spirit.

 

[Nathir]

No you will not, best not to even try them out.

 

[catfood]

Play it, faggot.

 

[Tweed]